Question about dying re: peacefulness *trigger warning*

[Eliza9917]

I keep seeing people say 'passed away peacefully' etc, but aibu to wonder what a non peaceful passing is?

This is in relation to people that pass at home or in hospital, from old age or illness.

I've been there when a relative passed in a hospice and they developed a rattle the day before which got worse as time went on but what else could mean their passing isn't peaceful?

Apologies if this is a stupid or insensitive question.

OP I am lucky enough to have absolutely no experience of witnessing someone’s passing.
Saying that probably means I have no right to say what I am about to...
I think you’ve had some harsh responses to what is a normal curiosity. Our culture very much says away from talk about death. It’s not the same around the world.

I’m sorry for everyone’s losses

Sometimes there is death rattle, and the person is clearly very much in pain.

The OP is getting most unfair pasting here.

The thread was very clear, and contained an apology in advance, so no need at all for the angry responses.

OP, possibly move this to Bereavement?

The title was clear so if you’re going to be upset/offended why open the thread?

This. Some people were quite clearly triggered by this thread - the title couldn’t have been more clear what it’s about. We all have our triggers - be kind to yourself and stay away from yours!

OP I don't think there's anything wrong with your question, though I can understand why it might be upsetting for those who have had horrible experiences. I have also wondered this, having sat at my mother's bedside as she died from cancer - did she have a peaceful death? I think most people imagine "peaceful" as meaning that the person who dies just very gradually slows down until eventually they "slip away". My mother's death wasn't quite like that but nor was it horrendous, I don't mind sharing what happened as it may help others.

Last weeks: she got gradually weaker over the course of a couple of months (had been terminally ill for several years, and had declined over the last year of her life, but this final decline was noticeably different). Two weeks prior to her death she was sleeping most of the time, but was lucid (if a little confused) when she woke.

Final days: she was sleeping / unconscious (lots of medication) 90% of the time. A little distressed/ confused when she woke but not unbearably so. She had trouble with secretions (basically where you can't clear your throat so feel like you are choking on your saliva) a couple of nights before she died, and this did distress her, but it was easily sorted with medication. At this stage we tacitly agreed with the GP that she should be heavily sedated, this was the last time she was properly conscious.

Final hours/ death: her breathing and.pulse had both slowed, she was completely unresponsive. At the moment of her death her breathing changed, kind of hard to describe how, but we knew this was it. Her eyes flickered open and her body almost gently spasmed (not as scary as it sounds). She gave a large exhale and she died.

Dr Harold Shipman has a lot to answer for.

I personally think people were allowed to pass a lot more peacefully before his morphine use was exposed, sadly.

I've worked in end of care, and it's a mixed bag to be honest. Some are peaceful, some not.

I was with a partner when he died. Lots of morphine and some gasping but I found it overall peaceful. He had liver cancer and had no fear of death. It was in hospital and very clinical, it was a life changing experience for me as the only other personal death in my life was parental suicide from hanging which is a horrific death. I wish we did discuss death more.

northern, I don't think it's the basic question that is upsetting people, so much as the other rather insensitive/provocative comments.

I don't believe anyone seriously believes every death is preceded by unconsciousness, for example. And I find it hard to imagine that anyone would assume days, months, or even years of suffering would be discounted from any consideration of what makes a 'peaceful' death. So, I do find those comments from the OP rather hard to read.

That's not because I haven't made my peace. I have. I absolutely believe we'd all benefit for being closer to death. But this is not the way.

Sorry, I also meant to say that she did have a death rattle for a while. It started about 3 days before she died and lasted for about 36 hours. It is a horrible and deeply upsetting thing to hear, but I do believe that it didn't distress her at all.

Pleaese ignore the backlash OP. I looked online for guidance during my dads final days. It is natural to want to talk about this. Looking at the replies on this thread i’m glad i didnt turn to mumnet in my time of need as it would have been little support.

Having just lost a beloved , what l perceive, to me to be peacefully, means they were just that , quiet, calm, serene almost , no fighting it ,no pain, no distress, just acceptance and letting nature take it's course after a long very happy life .

The title was clear so if you’re going to be upset/offended why open the thread?

I am not offended, but FWIW, I opened the thread assuming that it was going to be someone asking practical help for a dying relative. I don't mind that it isn't and I think the discussion is worthwhile, but it seems to me obvious many people with dying relatives will open this thread on the assumption this will be a plea for help from someone in that situation.

@procrastinatingpeacock

I came on to write my experience with my mums final hours and it was word for word what you wrote!

Thank you for expressing it so clearly, I’m sorry for your loss

This has made me a little teary, my father passed 8 months ago, his natural time due to dementia and Parkinson’s. it was peaceful and we stayed with him his last 5 days and nights.
He was on a syringe driver and I can pin point the moment he left us days before he died. I just knew as he stopped doing something he always always did when I fed him. He developed a rattle which we found distressing but the doctor gave him a buscupan injection which took it away. About 30 minutes before he passed he became a little restless after days of not moving. He was given a morphine injection and passed 20 minutes later in what I would describe as peaceful. I will never know if the injection helped him on his way but I have no regrets in asking for it.

Ok yes, I was aggressive in my response.
I guess the first thing that popped into my head was “why the fuck would you want to know?” - I know my experience of witnessing a “non-peaceful death” is at the extreme end of the scale, but all in all I think it’s an odd thing to wonder about.
Most people witnessing a death, will be that of a loved one, who’s probably older and likely suffering from an illness/long term health condition right? Personally I’d rather believe they are “going peacefully” so to speak rather than wonder what a non-peaceful death looks like.
The guy I’m talking about in my previous post was 26 years old, who took a step in the wrong place. Simple as that. If I could have done anything to make his death easier, quicker or less painful for him I would have. I’d have done anything not to have that image in my head for the rest of my life.
So yeah, I apologise for my initial aggression, but I don’t apologise for thinking this is a very odd question to be asking.

My son died at home last year even though he understood what was happening and we thought he was comfortable as he could be the end was terrible and scary he panicked
He was 4 it was a awful last memory for him and us

Oh, caxx. I am so very sorry.

It is not an odd question. It is a natural part of life and something we should be more open about. You could see from the OP they were asking about a death that was expected.

OP, I'm a nurse. Worked on wards and ITU. If a person is expected to pass away we did everything possible to make their passing comfortable. On ITU patients would either arrest (stop breathing / heart stops) or had treatment withdrawn if they were not responsive or had a catastrophic injury, these patients were normally sedated if ventilated so wouldn't necessarily know what was going on. If they were brain-stem dead the family may be approached about organ donation so they'd go to theatre.

Hope this helps

Oh caxx I am so very sorry

I think this is actually a really important question and many people would benefit greatly from more openness and understanding of what the end of life can look like. It's never going to be easy or pleasant , but being a bit more prepared can only help during a horrible time.
Dr Kathryn Mannix has written a book 'With the End in Mind' which explores this with great sensitivity and humanity . It helped me greatly in the final months of my sister's life.
Here is a link to her book - she has been interviewed quite widely and has an interesting website as well , if anyone is looking for some insight into this topic.
www.amazon.co.uk/End-Mind-Dying-Wisdom-Denial/dp/0008210888?tag=mumsnetforum-21

Oh caxx, that’s heartbreaking. I’m so sorry for your loss and your beautiful boy.

I'm a nurse, so I've seen a reasonable amount of deaths, some expected, some not. I have no personal experience of death e.g. a family member.

To me a peaceful death is when my patient isn't agitated or in pain in their final days, and they're surrounded by the people they love.

The worst deaths I have seen are when the patient is dying, however would like to continue treatment, or the Dr wants to continue treatment and they then arrest and I have to attempt to resusitate them, very often unsuccessfully, it causes alot of trauma for the family.
We try to recognise dying as early on as possible so a care plan can be individualised and we try to fulfil the patients last wishes e.g. where they want to die, if they would like a chaplain, who they want to be there.

The last death I was involved in, I had looked after an elderly lady for a few weeks on my ward and she had been getting progressively worse following a heart attack, family were aware of prognosis however she wasn't put on the end of life pathway and we were actively treating her.
So I'm looking after her on my shift one day and she really goes downhill, I call the family before I call the Dr as I knew she wasn't going to last much longer. Whilst waiting for the family, the Dr reviewed and it was agreed she was dying imminently and was no longer for active treatment, however the decision was made to try and prolong her life long enough for her family to say goodbye. So that's what I did, I gave her intravenous fluids to try and raise her blood pressure enough so that she would remain conscious, she wasn't in pain at all and was very comfortable, but I was trying to keep her alive until the family arrived. The family arrived just in time to say goodbye, and we all stood around her bed, holding eachother whilst she slipped away. The family were so greatful they were there, they could say goodbye and see she wasn't in any pain.
To me that was a peaceful death, the actual end was very quick and she was pretty much conscious until the end, in absolutely no pain or agitation, surrounded by the people she loved.

caxx

OP - YANBU to ask. We need to talk about death more. If sex were the great Victorian taboo, I suspect death is ours.

I hope my mother's passing will be peaceful and not spent alone, frightened and in pain after a fall (my fear) Or struggling to breath.

Wasn't fortunate enough to be with my lovely DM when she died recently, so can't talk about that.

With my DF, it was very much expected. He had been hospitalized for some time, came home to die, and was in the center of the house being part of all that went on until he did. The last week was a mix of horrendous and wonderful. He brightened up tremendously for one evening, and we had a wonderful chat and he sang to me. Slept all of the next day. The following day, in a lucid few minutes, he complained the print was too small when trying to read something. We rushed to print it bigger, but of course it was his vision that was going. He slept mostly, when awake was nice and loving, a few episodes of being angry and confused - and the physical strength he showed then was amazing. The last 36 hours he mostly lay there, his breath getting weaker and less frequent. It was scary, and frightening as we knew my DM was not ready, despite the Dr and medical staff saying this was the end. The end came, quietly, in the end. I'd still call it a peaceful end, although I can clearly conjure up his face during the few minutes of rage he went through.

I'm so very glad I was there. It really helps with the acceptance, IMO.

to all who have lost a loved one.