AIBU to remind everyone that the MMR vaccine does NOT cause autism?

[TheHodgeoftheHedge]

Seeing as this worry comes up so many times on MN and in wider life, I feel obliged to post this and remind everyone that MMR has not link to autism whatsoever, as yet another HUGE study has found.

www.independent.co.uk/news/health/mmr-vaccine-autism-antivax-measles-study-andrew-wakefield-a8808086.html

Thanks.

Cath has answered my question (not very satisfactorily) by PM in which she has said she won't be posting any more on this thread.

LaPampa of course it’s down to how we assess risk. I fly far more than most and I drive.... both have an element of risk I guess though I feel far safer flying than driving. I don’t view measles as a risk, but I do regard vaccination as an unnecessary risk. I also think people’s life style choices in terms of poor diet etc are more of a risk than what is referred to as infectious disease... I.e cancer, heart disease, diabetes etc as that’s what far more people die of

@LaPampa “I’m def not a scientist or scientifically minded”

Very few of us are (scientists etc) on here, which is why we try to educate ourselves from up-to-date reliable sources. And of course we welcome contributions from those that are expert in this field. Risk assessments I believe are generally made by experts for various scenarios relying on several factors, and these are shown in drawing up data We rely on expert risk assessment in our own decision making.

So for example I did a risk assessment on someone recently based on my knowledge of the situation, while at the same time advising them of where to go to seek advice that would be more reassuring/conclusive to them. FWIW to my mind there was zero risk, the this was bourne out after he consulted the experts 😀

Now where the waters become a tad muddied with asking someone like Cath this sort of question is......well according to her sources measles as a virus doesn’t actually exist so no point vaccinating (although weirdly she also does believe it exists, however she describes it, but mildly...sort of ) And then HIV is harmless so no point taking “toxic meds” it’s all rather cofusing really.

But yes, risk stats are interesting. Perhaps we trust what we know and do more regularly. Something we do more rarely - perhaps we fear more what we don’t experience or know about it so much?

@Grumblebee...”Cath has answered my question (not very satisfactorily) by PM in which she has said she won't be posting any more on this thread.”

Wanna bet??

I guess what I find interesting is the hierarchy of risk assessment and how we get to that point of decision making.

I guess driving has both positive and negative outcomes and benefits of convenience outway risk of being killed. But I’ve also read (can’t remember where but media not book) that car emissions will be causing long term health problems which we just don’t know the full extent yet.

So is driving more or less risky than vaccination to the long term health of your children? I guess driving has short term obvious benefits.

Flying too has obvious long term consequences to the planet which must have a health impact to us - although on first glance is quite safe (my quick google says 1 in 5m chance of dying in a plane crash).

Walking down the street however has a 1 in 500 chance of death. That sounds quite risky yet I bet everyone does that without second thought.

I guess what I don’t understand is it appears that ‘not vaccinating’ is made as an isolated decision.

Life style is a risk factor for many diseases but not for all, just like genetics are a risk factor for some but not for all. Cancers vary wildly some are largely genetic (eg certain breast cancers), others have a much greater "lifestyle" factor (eg lung cancer in smokers) some have viral factor (eg cervical cancer) others are just plan bad luck (childhood cancers in otherwise healthy kids with no family history) but it's never totally cut and dried. Some people chain smoke for decades without contacting lung cancer while some non smokers get it. Type 2 diabetes is life style enduced but type 1 isn't. Some heart disease is due to poor lifestyle but some is congenital (think of the professional footballers who have had heart attacks in the middle of a match). Viruses, germs, genes, lifestyles and just being dealt a crappy hand by fate can all impact health. Good Doctors and scientists acknowledge this, only quacks try to take some of the factors out of the mix.

@HIVpos she obviously couldn't resist!

@Gilead thank you 🤗. Luckily I’m old enough, knowledgeable enough, and hopefully eloquent enough to counteract what she says. Who knew my private school education would lead me to be posting on this sort of subject 🤪 Anyway, your words are much appreciated.

I do believe Cath is incredibly thoughtless in her writing, as in an effort to prove herself, she has shown she is incapable of acknowledging the potential risk of what she writes when read by others. As such this is why she is dangerous and has been drawn out to show what she writes should not be trusted...at alll...(except when she wrote we should drink enough water to stay well hydrated).

Well we’ve got about 40 posts left on this thread...anyone want to post inane stuff to fill it up?

Anyone want to bet on if she’ll be back?

I feel I need a drink after this...perhaps a cocktail to celebrate the weather being so crap today...I like Negronis (or is that a poor lifestyle choice?) 🍹

Rather than something inane can I remind people that the autism society dismisses an MMR link and asks that people stop perpetuating the myth of a link as it diverts or prevents funding into actual causes.

Negronis are the well from which many life-threatening diseases are drawn.

Whiskey sours on the other hand are the very water of life.

@Grumble umbrella you are right and this was the original point of this thread, which got sidetracked...apologies to Hodge...again!

There was a link posted at the start showing the large study done with the conclusion being that the MMT jab does not cause autism.

There have also been poster, some having had an autism diagnosis themselves, others with kids who have. They have not blamed the MMR jab.

So hopefully the focus can now be on funds helping autism itself and the link between the 2 forgotten

@KissinginTheRain whisky sours...had to google..not sure about the egg white addition - now there’s a potential health risk 😂. I do like the odd whisky and coke.....though full fat coke is bad for you, as is the sweeteners in the low fat version.

Water it is then....mind you, did you know that (aside from being very boring and it doesn’t have that certain kick that alcohol does) too much water can damage your kidneys 😐

Back to negronis 😀

Whoops sorry @GrumbleBumble for misnaming you above - my iPad autocorrect has a mind of its own...though quite appropriate today!

The false positive rate for confirmed HIV testing is one case per 250,000 samples.

www.verywellhealth.com/everything-you-need-to-know-about-getting-an-hiv-test-3132731

Cath, if there is no HIV virus, how has its genome been sequenced so many times?

Next-Generation Human Immunodeficiency Virus Sequencing for Patient Management and Drug Resistance Surveillance

No apologies required HIVpos! My apologies to you that you’ve been put in the position that you have been on this thread.

My thanks to those of you who have contributed to the discussion on here - my dearest hope, and point in posting was that if one person reads that piece of news and the study and is reassured that they should vaccinate their kid, then it’s all good.
People like Cath truly terrify me with the force with which they push their conspiracy theory agendas and whilst I believe in free speech, one of the greatest problems in this day and age is that the online world gives them a place and a voice where they might influence other people with their dangerous nonsense.

Although it is a pity she’s not coming back as she never did answer my question about what incredible magic powers her kids have so that if they catch measles or similar they won’t suffer any nasty side effects or complications. Shame.

No problem Hodge, my aim after my diagnosis was and is to raise awareness in others. Plus I have done some training on n the subject, which has helped me as much as others. So if just one person reads this and learns from it that is good. And your aim was the same. I think the main thing Cath has done is show us what a true denialist - whether of AIDS or of vaccinations - sounds like...on paper at least. Though we’ve also been “treated” to a whole load of very iffy videos too.

I do agree with you that people should ask questions - but to the right people. This is what lets Cath’s thinking down.

@MissConductUs as Cath has said she’s not coming back to post again, she’s already answered this...after a fashion. This from yesterday...

“Do viruses exist? cellular particulates/debris yes... which are named ‘viruses’ by conventional immunologists. I don’t believe they are pathogenic. Lanka also thinks this

Yes I believe they are created by our own bodies.

No I don’t think they harm us.. I believe they have a purpose

Everyone has trillions of these cellular debris/components in their body regardless of how healthy you are because they are produced by your body “

So she does believe HIV exists, but in a harmless fashion, and we create it ourselves. She also believes that what does us most damage is the “toxic medication” we take in the mistaken belief that it might be helping, and we are absolutely nuts to be taking it.

I did pediatric nursing for about 3 years early in my career and cared for many children with vaccine preventable illnesses serious enough to require hospitalization. At least most of the parents were willing to vaccinate at that point.

None of those cases were as bad as this one. A six year old boy almost died of tetanus and spent 57 days in hospital recovering. He got one dose of tetanus vaccine in A&E as soon as they realized what he was suffering from and the parents refused the booster jab when he was discharged. So Cath has cousins here in the US.

An unvaccinated Oregon boy almost died of tetanus, CDC says

The only bright side of cases like these is that they put pressure on the state legislatures to make it harder for parents to opt out of vaccination and still send their kids to public schools. That's what happened in California after low vaccination rates led to the Disneyland measles outbreak.

Vaccine refusal helped fuel Disneyland measles outbreak, study says

No matter how you spin it, vaccine refusal leads to disease outbreaks and children suffer, become disabled and in some cases die.

Nice work Cath.

vaccines and autism

the spread of measles amid anti vaccine propaganda

50%increase in measles cases

Well hopefully Cath is out, but I'd love to know what she thinks the immune system does.