AIBU to remind everyone that the MMR vaccine does NOT cause autism?

[TheHodgeoftheHedge]

Seeing as this worry comes up so many times on MN and in wider life, I feel obliged to post this and remind everyone that MMR has not link to autism whatsoever, as yet another HUGE study has found.

www.independent.co.uk/news/health/mmr-vaccine-autism-antivax-measles-study-andrew-wakefield-a8808086.html

Thanks.

You know, I know, lots know...but some don’t want to know.

What do you know? Neither of you have provided a single shred of credible proof to back up your opinions when faced with scientific facts.

Cathmidston - I know it’s hard but o think you should leave this conversation now.

Now, that's something I definitely agree on.

Vinylsamso you’re totally right x

Hi all, what do we have today…

@MumpsFFS I hope your DS is better soon and hasn’t missed too much – crap time to get mumps. Out of interest has he had to stay away from others till no longer infectious?

@MissConductUS – great to have the informed views of a nurse here. I agree the pediatric mortality rates were horrendous in the past, especially when compared to now.

@Rainbowjellies – great explanation on how herd immunity and catching infectious illness works – thank you.

@Ewitsahooman – interesting point on vaccinations and not creating antibodies. As part of my care I am offered among other things free Hep A and Hep B vaccinations. My initial bloods showed up antibodies to things like measles and also Hep A, so a few months later I got the Hep B shots (useful for some of the places I travel to). The nurse administering the shots explained that some people do not create antibodies – especially older people (me for example!!) and that on completion of the course I would be tested for them and another course offered if they hadn’t worked. Luckily they worked 1st time

@Cathmidston – posters being “vile and sarcastic” Vile….haven’t seen it. Sarcastic….really not surprising when responding to your mostly totally misguided logic. Perhaps read sarcasm as aghast.

The navy ship in the news – interesting story. I read up a bit and apparently there were recent studies done saying parotitis is related to influenza, not mumps. Won’t link as I don’t know how reliable this study is. Your wiki link states it is the “most common” cause – not the ONLY cause

“Looks like a duck, walks like a duck…it is a duck” What the fuck??? So if I got dressed as a duck and walked like one…..quack???? ie you are saying if an illness is similar to another it must BE that one?

See how skewed your thinking is?? Actually no you probably don’t see.

Re pharma…I agree they can make massive profits, but can spend many years and a lot of money developing something, taking it to trials and then getting it approved - they are a business like any other. It is great when patents expire and much much cheaper generics come out. Luckily charities and foundations exist for countries like the USA where treatment is insurance based to help those who can’t afford treatment. Luckily here the NHS has more clout in keeping prices lower.

@Lweji interesting point on how vaccines work. When I was offered the flu jab for free but found people who’d been vaccinated still got it I read up how it works. Basically we in the northern hemisphere are treated against the 3-4 more virulent strains that happened in the southern hemisphere the previous season – not all strains. Same thing with HPV in that it helps protect against the worst (potentially cancer causing) strains. They can’t protect against all as things are evolving all the time.

Back to @Cathmidston – I’m confused…do you believe these viruses actually exist or not? Dr Lanka – bless him, another fricking AIDS denialist among other things – seems to assert the measles virus (and also the human immunodeficiency virus) does not exist….so what do you think? Do they exist or don’t they? Genuinely interested as in a lot of your postings you seem to think they do exist, but in a harmless form.

@Vinylsamso this seems to be something we are all in agreement on - even Cath, though I doubt she will be able to stop herself unfortunately

All the evidence I’ve found so far suggests that ‘viruses’ are produced by the body and are cellular particulates. It’s well known (though I doubt by you lot) that cells produce ‘viruses’ when under stress

And no I don’t believe the supposed HIV. Virus causes AIDS

Anyhow I’ll leave you with this
www.theperthgroup.com/OTHER/nihantibodiesshort.html

Ah, The Perth Group. HIV/AIDs denialists so rabid that even the other denialists shun then.

Remind me again, how many hundreds of thousands of premature HIV and AIDs related deaths are they responsible for due to their influence over health policies in South Africa?

Cath I didn’t ask you that. I asked you if you thought viruses exist - which you mention often, or do you believe they don’t exist, like Stefan Lanka? What do you think does the damage to our bodies, potentially killing us? I’m talking about all potentially viruses here?

Actually, forgetting the word AIDS for a minute, what do you think that people with late stage untreated HIV die(d) of?

All the evidence I’ve found so far suggests that ‘viruses’ are produced by the body and are cellular particulates.

Provide some credible scientific evidence to back it up.

By "credible" I mean empirical studies published in peer-reviewed scholarly journals, not the internet rantings of alien-hugging tin-foil hat types who have been rejected by the wider scientific community.

All the evidence I’ve found so far suggests that ‘viruses’ are produced by the body and are cellular particulates.

You haven't look properly then.

You are like my DS who fails to spot whatever he's looking for in front of his eyes.

Tha5 should read “potentially deadly viruses”

In all fairness, it is thought that some viruses may have evolved from the DNA or RNA of larger organisms and then 'escaped'. But once evolved they can replicate and be passed between larger organisms ie animals or people.

Some viruses also integrate in the genome, which is one reason they can become dormant and some cause cancer too.

Viruses are interesting because they are not living beings as such, because they are not capable of independent replication. They are obligatory parasites of cells, but many (most?) can exist and survive outside the cells.
Life is not black and white and there are intermediate organic forms that replicate, like viruses. Plasmids, for example, are also independent of the usual cell machinery, but must be passed on directly between cells. These tend to be useful (e.g. by carrying drug resistance genes) rather than pathogenic, though. Unlike viruses.

Yes, if a cell is infected, then it can start shedding viruses that it didn't shed before. It's a perfectly normal survival strategy for the virus:stay dormant while the host is fine, get out when the host is about to die.

Cells don't shed just any DNA or RNA, though.

Scientists have also demonstrated the ability of cells to produce viruses when under threat from external poisons and radiation, it is known as the SOS response in bacteria. This is in fact part of the reaction to poisons that is used to find out how toxic a chemical is, it is a standard chemical test used in the pharmaceutical industry and agrochemical industry to assess the toxicity of additives, drugs and insecticides called the ‘Ames’ test. The production of viruses under such circumstances could be:
A method of informing or warning other cells of the danger
Instructing other cells how to affect the required response to the trauma, just as genetic resistance to antibiotics can be transferred to other bacteria in this manner.

The packaging of the DNA codes as with other cell components to be
recycled and used by other cells.
Therefore, rather than the cause of cell breakdown, we know that viruses are caused by the poisoning of cells, the cell effectively breaks up and packages tiny amounts of its genetic material in protective membranes, these are in fact viruses. A poisoned cell effectively produces viruses, therefore it is very likely that the reason why so much viral DNA/RNA is found in normal cellular DNA is because that is where the viral DNA actually came from, viruses are in fact broken up pieces of our own cellular DNA.
We also know that viruses transfer useful genetic information from cell to cell and to other individuals in healthy cells, yet surprisingly we have never been able to show a virus infecting a host cell from the outside to create a diseased cell. In the decades of viral research using electron microscopes able to detect small particles such as viruses, we have never been able to show what is known as ‘infectosomes’ in diseased cells, i.e. viruses being incorporated in the membrane of a host cell transferring genetic information into the cell causing its disease and destruction.

Viral disease theories are based on belief systems creating hypothesis, leading to assumption and more supposition, inferred from very limited biological experiments,

Autistic and vaccinated and I'm doing alright 🤷🏻‍♀️

Cath, so what you are saying is that we create these viruses ourselves rather than contracting them from someone else? So viruses do exist, or not?

And those viruses then poison our cells? Now that bit I do get as it’s well known that the one I have integrates itself into my immune system and uses my white blood cells to make many more of itself, killing the WBC in the process.

Could you provide the source please?

Also, perhaps you could answer my post from earlier.....here it is

Cath I didn’t ask you that. I asked you if you thought viruses exist - which you mention often, or do you believe they don’t exist, like Stefan Lanka? What do you think does the damage to our bodies, potentially killing us? I’m talking about all potentially viruses here?

Actually, forgetting the word AIDS for a minute, what do you think that people with late stage untreated HIV die(d) of? What killed so many people who were diagnosed with it and died before medication came out?

I’m getting really confused about what you actually believe!

What are considered viruses i.e packets of DNA or RNA are produced by our own cells in response to toxins etc... probably as a way of protecting the information contained in the cell ... I dont think these pCkets of DNA/RNA are pathogenic...I think they serve a purpose

So yes packets of DNA exist ...there are trillions of them in our bodies but I don’t believe they are invading pathogens

I dint know how to explain it more simply for you. So rather than an exterior pathogen invading a cell and killing it, they are particulates made by our cells in response to a toxin... serving a purpose.. and containing information.so they are the result rather than the cause of disease .

So when I say I don’t believe in viruses ..I mean I don’t believe in the sense that they are referred to by most people

AIDS never occurs through just the presence of supposed HIV. AIDS which as you know is a deficiency in the immune system leading to opportunistic infections etc always has co factors that could cause the immunodeficiency.
I know Lweji has had much amusement from my reference to the ‘fast lane’ lifestyle.. but if you take preemptive antibiotics every week, use poppers, meth and other drugs on a weekly basis for years on end ....you will destroy your immune system leading to immune deficiency.

Most patients who die from AIDS will have co factors such as this. Even AZT, particularly in the doses prescribed in the 80s, would have destroyed the immune system. It kills diving cells... causing the very symptoms associated with ‘AIDS’

For instance in Africa,.if you present with tuberculosis you’re considered an AIDS patient (without an HIV test even) even though TB has been around for centuries and is associated with lack of sanitation and malnutrition

As for what does the damage?
I believe illness is caused by physical, chemical or emotional stress. And symptoms serve a very important purpose:

A method of interpreting symptoms developed by Dr Randolphe Nesse, practising physician, Professor of Academic Affairs in the Department of Psychiatry, University of Michigan School of Medicine, and Dr George Williams, professor Emeritus of Ecology and Evolution at the State University of New York, member of the US National Academy of Science, has given rise to the term ‘Darwinian medicine’. The concept although claimed to be new, has in fact been used by complementary therapists for centuries.

The basis of their rationale comes from acknowledging the fact that many symptoms are produced in order to maintain the health of the individual. The symptoms will, therefore, depend on the particular susceptibility of the individual and the conditions that the individual is currently subjected to. The term Darwinian medicine relates to the hypothesis that these symptoms have therefore evolved for the survival of that species and individual.

That is, the symptoms have a purpose, they are not merely malfunctions. Examples given are; the beneficial response of fever in combating micro-organisms during an infection; the role of diarrhoea in the evacuation of patheogenic organisms; the removal of iron from blood circulation in early bacterial infection appears as anaemia, this results in the decrease of the iron supply to the bacteria, which does not allow the bacteria to flourish; accompanied swelling when spraining a joint to stop motion and increase in scavenger cells to remove damaged tissue; morning sickness and its role in protecting the foetus from toxins.

The possible suppression of symptoms without understanding the larger context of their function may therefore lead to more serious consequences.

The effects of symptoms and illnesses may have consequences way beyond that of the acute problems immediately following a disease. For example, The Lancet 5 Jan 1985, reports on a study investigating the phenomenon of measles virus infection without the appearance of typical measles rash. The presence of measles antibodies in individuals is evidence of measles virus infection, however some do not produce the typical measles rash. In adulthood, (average age in the study was 38 years), for those with antibodies but NO rash, there was shown to be an increased incidence of immunoreactive diseases, sebaceous skin diseases, degenerative diseases of bone and cartilage, and certain tumours.

Cath, You haven’t answered any of the questions I asked. Plus I did say forget AIDS for a minute, yet this is all you’ve focussed on. (And for the record what you said about it is incorrect anyway)

What!
I tried to answer all your questions!..3 long replies in fact.... and you asked what kills people with HIV ...so I answered ... obviously I’m relation to immunosupression

No you didn’t Cath. What you did was copy and paste excerpts from articles written by people who are not experts in the field on which they are writing (easy enough to google)

Perhaps you could answer using your own words, and specifically answer what I asked. You are skirting the issue rather than answering directly. How about this, just yes or no questions and you can C&P to reply....

Do viruses exist? (Stefan Lanka and others you have quoted say they don’t)

Do you believe these viruses are created by our own bodies, or passed on by others?

Can these viruses harm us?

Do you think that if we are look after ourselves and live a healthy lifestyle we won’t have these viruses?

Did all the people with HIV who died before treatment die of immunosuppression? (Take into account that not all were living the “fast gay lifestyle”)

I’m getting really confused about what you actually believe!

She believes that the lizard people are in cahoots with the masons and they’re using chem trails to poison and befuddle us so that we don’t question the nanobot injections we’re being tricked into getting as ‘vaccinations’.

But Cath knows the three things that can save us: organic food, homeopathy and arnica.

Also, you mention a toxin...do we (a) make that toxin ourselves too or (b) can we catch it from someone else?