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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

...to feel this about cousin relationships?

300 replies

AliceAforethought · 04/03/2019 23:40

I was chatting with an acquaintance yesterday (a fellow school mum) and she mentioned that a cousin of hers was married to their own first cousin (on the other side, not related to the school mum). I may have said an apparently not too interested “Oh really?” but inside I thought “Eww!”.
The school mum laughed and said “the children seem normal... so far!”

I know it’s legal, but I can’t help but have a feeling of unease/ distaste about cousin relationships. AIBU to feel this? I read some time ago that the risks to any resultant children are not great, but then more recently that it was greater than previously thought.
The school mum clearly felt there was something a bit off about it, too!

Am fully prepared to be told IABU, but wondered if others felt like this? Sleeping with a cousin just seems to have a bit of an ick factor to me!

OP posts:
MrsBellamy · 06/03/2019 21:41

I'm not sure I agree with the arguments for cousins living apart so it's less gross, it doesn't negate the problem with genetics.

My BF is seen by some in my family as my cousin (genetically we're not related, only through marriage, my aunt married his uncle) but we were raised as cousins and so we have a strong friendship and feeling of safety and closeness that I wouldn't have with many other men. The family members we have in common find it a bit strange although they've not taken too long to get their heads around it. So with my personal history I would say that a close relationship while growing up could be advantageous rather than yucky.

mathanxiety · 07/03/2019 03:53

PanickAttack
I love how people are assuming cousin marriages are not a choice.

You are (purposefully?) misquoting people.

It has been stated that cousin marriages are not always entered into by choice.
You have twisted that to suit your purpose, which seems to be to shut down discussion by means of accusations of racism.

Did anyone mention Aschinazzi Jews yet? And their genetic abnormality in their communities?
Yes, Ashkenazi Jews have been mentioned several times here.
Maybe it's a matter of poor wording, but the issue is not 'genetic abnormality' in communities where the medical effects of a tradition of cousin marriage (or marriage within a small gene pool) are felt. The issue is predictable and avoidable problems that arise from predictable, normal, and well known behaviour of genes.

Nobody is saying any particular community is 'genetically abnormal'.

Nobody is sneering at anyone.

If a community persists in a practice that has known effects on future generations (and heartbreak for the generations bearing the babies) that practice can and should be questioned. And in fact, some in the UK in communities where cousin marriage was accepted are questioning it, while others are contemplating undergoing genetic testing as it becomes clear that the birth of babies with serious health problems can be avoided either by not marrying cousins or by doing IVF.

breeze44 · 07/03/2019 06:34

On a thread about genetics and the implication of close family members procreating, the Adam and Eve story seems wildly out of place, is my point. Quite obviously.

Hardly wildly out of place. Two posters had previously been joking about being descended from Adam and Eve in relation to the topic of the thread, but many people do believe that all humans are descended from Adam so I was mentioning that perspective, and it was entirely relevant in the context of what I was discussing with the OP about the issue of aversion.
If the mere mention of Adam and Eve on this thread is irrelevant as you claim, why didn't you say so to those other posters? Is it because they agree with your belief that it is 'just a story'? If somebody had attempted to link their thoughts on cousin marriage to evolution (or whatever you believe about the origins of humanity) would you have found that 'out of place'? I doubt it.

Perhaps you feel the need for this forum to be a place where you can preserve the illusion that everyone thinks and believes like you do. I've noticed quite an interesting pattern on some threads where people want to discuss a practice that they are not involved in, and give their opinion, and then when somebody who does have experience of that practice (as I do with cousin marriage in my family and wider community) attempts to join the discussion, they get annoyed. It's as if they want to discuss it as something that 'other people' do, as a phenomenon for them to comment and opine on, without having to actually include the perspective of those who have personal experience of it. Hopefully that does not apply to you.

sailorsdelight · 07/03/2019 06:35

Omg can’t imagine marrying any of my cousins! Would be too close for me.

CandyflossKid · 07/03/2019 06:59

My DH's first marriage was to his cousin.
This means that family 'do's' now are somewhat 'interesting'!

Gwenhwyfar · 07/03/2019 07:02

"I wouldn't dream of going near a family member. However far removed they are"

However far removed is ridiculous. A fifth or sixth cousin is a problem? Everyone is related if you go far enough.
We rarely know further than second cousins. I had a friend who was a third cousin, but the family relationship was discovered after my parents and her parents met, we didn't know each other as relatives before she moved to our area.

I would avoid first cousin, but other than that I don't see a problem. And I don't think first cousin marriage is the end of the world either as long as it's not repeated through the generations.

breeze44 · 07/03/2019 07:02

If a community persists in a practice that has known effects on future generations (and heartbreak for the generations bearing the babies) that practice can and should be questioned. And in fact, some in the UK in communities where cousin marriage was accepted are questioning it, while others are contemplating undergoing genetic testing as it becomes clear that the birth of babies with serious health problems can be avoided either by not marrying cousins or by doing IVF.

You're missing the point. As a previous poster mentioned, the majority of babies born with serious genetic conditions are born to parents who are unrelated.
Where genetic counselling is available, it should be encouraged for every couple if that's what they want, not just cousins. Targeting cousins is problematic for a number of reasons, not least that it gives some people the false impression that solely avoiding marrying a cousin is an effective way to reduce the risk of having a baby born with a genetic condition.

In some cases marrying a cousin would be less risky. For example, according to the NHS there are some ethnic groups who are at a higher risk of passing on genetic blood diseases such as sickle cell, due to the fact that carriers of the gene had resistance to malaria. So when there were malaria outbreaks in the past, many of those who died were not carriers, and many of those who survived were carriers, leading to a higher incidence of carriers in that group. So imagine a hypothetical case of a woman who is a carrier for sickle cell disease, and it runs in the family on her father's side. An unrelated man proposes to her, but her parents were hoping she would marry her maternal cousin.

If we follow the logic that marrying cousins should be avoided, she should accept the proposal (if she wants), and avoid the cousin. But what if the disease doesn't run in the maternal side of her family, and it turns out that the unrelated man is a carrier too? In that case she would have been better off marrying the cousin if her main concern is about passing on the disease.

In my area, testing for some genetic conditions is done as standard for certain ethnic groups as part of antenatal care (including white groups who have a higher risk of conditions like cystic fibrosis). This is too late in my opinion. What causes less heartbreak, breaking an engagement, or having to make difficult decisions about a pregnancy which is already in progress?

The other thing that has to be emphasised in all of this is that the language around genetic conditions has to be sensitive, otherwise it can give the impression that people with disabilities and serious health conditions are somehow 'undesirable', and that the parents of such children are 'selfish'. I was somewhat shocked at the way testing for Down's Syndrome was presented in antenatal literature, as if it was an automatic assumption that high risk parents would consider an abortion. I wondered how parents who already have a child with the condition would feel reading that during a second pregnancy.

Nodancingshoes · 07/03/2019 07:04

I know some first cousins who were married (now divorced) - their mums are sisters.... Its all very awkward now

breeze44 · 07/03/2019 07:06

I should have clarified in my post earlier on the thread about the woman in the family of 5 who married her cousin, that obviously the cousin was from a different branch of the family and not from the aunt who breastfed her brother. The example is confusing without that.

Gwenhwyfar · 07/03/2019 07:06

"Hmm I knew a boy from Iceland when I was at school. He said his parents were cousins but that as the population was so small most people did find themselves marrying their cousin"

Weebit, did you read my post earlier with the link showing that couples in Iceland who are related (not necessarily as close as first cousins) seem to be MORE compatible fertility-wise.

GreenShadow · 07/03/2019 17:06

My mum's parents were first cousins. We have loads of photos of them as toddlers growing up together. I'm used to the idea so it doesn't seem weird to me.

SinkGirl · 07/03/2019 17:32

My son is completely besotted with his cousin - his first ever kiss was given to her. He couldn’t stop looking at her and had this soppy look on his face the whole day.

It was his first birthday. He’s now two, I should probably keep an eye on those two when they’re older...

mathanxiety · 08/03/2019 07:51

Targeting cousins is problematic for a number of reasons, not least that it gives some people the false impression that solely avoiding marrying a cousin is an effective way to reduce the risk of having a baby born with a genetic condition.

I don't think people are that stupid.

Cousin marriage is a known risk for genetic abnormalities in offspring. Avoiding known risks is completely desirable and completely possible, and as noted, many in communities where cousin marriage is considered normal are beginning to undergo testing, to do IVF, or to break with tradition and marry unrelated people.

Pre-pregnancy screening for all has echoes of eugenics and it sends the message that bearing babies with disabilities is the worst thing anyone could do; unless we enter a very dark era in human history it is not going to happen.

breeze44 · 08/03/2019 17:03

But that message is the same regardless of whether everyone gets tested or not. The concern is the same one whether it’s just that community or all of society. I can only think that misleading reporting or cultural bias is behind the singling out of cousin marriages. Getting pregnant over the age of 40 also has known risks but little is said about that. There was a thread on here the other day with a woman asking if she had left it too late to have a baby and I only read the first page but nearly every response was positive. Compare that to the posts on this thread.

mathanxiety · 09/03/2019 05:00

Getting pregnant over the age of 40 also has known risks but little is said about that.
That is patently untrue.

I can only think that misleading reporting or cultural bias is behind the singling out of cousin marriages.
There is no misleading reporting or cultural bias in the linking of birth defects to cousin marriage. The fact that cousin marriage takes place in certain communities and not others does not mean there is cultural bias.

The fact that people in these communities are themselves becoming alerted to the dangers inherent in the tradition and are doing something about it should tell you that not everyone is so enamoured of the tradition that they are willing to take chances with their babies' health, or so keen to take offence at the suggestion that a tradition should be examined that they close their minds to medical evidence.

Cousin marriage is a risk factor that can be remedied. That is why it is focused on.

mathanxiety · 09/03/2019 05:08

And FWIW, the Irish Travelers are another ethnic group that practices cousin marriage. They are also coming around to the idea of genetic testing before deciding to have children thanks to collaborative efforts in Ireland involving Traveler representative groups and medical experts. Believe it or not, parents from all communities experience devastation when a baby dies, and most people are very happy to learn that there is some reason for a loss and importantly, that something can be done to prevent the heartbreak.

OwlBeThere · 09/03/2019 05:10

Growing up I knew the child of first cousins

We all found it so odd that her parents were also her cousins

She was an intelligent girl, but "off" somehow, quiet, struggled with social skills

This was 80s/90s and she would probably be classed as Aspergers today, her best friend also

I don’t even know where to start with this post... that you think being the child of cousins makes you autistic, that you’ve assumed she was autistic or that you’ve described as ‘classed as Aspergers’. Jesus Christ.

user1480880826 · 09/03/2019 06:20

Its more than just gross. It’s extremely irresponsible. There have been moves to ban it for a long time because there are high incidents of birth defects in children born to parents who are first cousins.

DisgraceToTheYChromosome · 09/03/2019 06:29

My family have a high incidence of Asperger's/ASD, and we don't marry each other. FFS.

PregnantSea · 09/03/2019 06:35

Look into incest laws around the world. You'd be really surprised at how many western countries allow relatives to marry.

It creeps me out too but that's my problem, not theirs. There are plenty of reasons we can come up with to judge other people's choices.

Hoppinggreen · 09/03/2019 09:09

There are several local Councillors in my county who are from one of the communities where cousin marriage is common who are trying to highlight this issue. THEY THEMSELVES have highlighted the issue and provided quite a few heartbreaking cases in the press.
According to these brave ladies ( always ladies) it’s a known issue that is brushed under the carpet and and issues caused by it are hidden as it’s such an intrinsic part of their culture that raising awareness will always be difficult. They have also said that THEY have to raise it because people outside the culture will probably be accused or racism if they try to.
Of course birth defects are caused by many other things than familial marriage but cancer is caused by many other things than smoking - it’s about avoiding known risks.
I don’t judge cousin marriage for any other reason than it is genetically risky and bear in mind that as well as cousin marriage there is in some communities a history of marrying someone from your family village where the relationships may be confused after many years of intermarriage and lack of new genetic material coming into what can sometimes be remote areas.
People who choose to marry their cousin (or people who encourage it) should at least be aware that it may cause issues if they have children

maxcappy5 · 28/03/2019 12:07

I am new to this. My son, aged 24, was diagnosed late with Asperger's. The other night he took an overdose of antidepressants. Fortunately, a friend called an ambulance and he is fine. He says nothing works - the medication, the psychologist. I am at a loss as to how to help him as a loving parent. Any advice gratefully received.

babyno5 · 31/03/2019 23:58

Just found this old thread!
I had a drunken one night stand with my (step) cousin-ie my stepfathers brothers son.
It was a bit of a shock to both of us as we sort of grew up spending a lot of child hood together. A lot of wine had been consumed and we've never spoken of it again - both married 😱

FuckWaitroseScum · 17/04/2019 21:47

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Andromeida59 · 17/04/2019 23:24

Probably very outing but my grandmother's son married his cousin (grandmother's niece). Not only did it tear the family apart when they divorced, they also passed on a very nasty genetic condition where two of the three children needed organ transplants.
We all variants of this condition but in carriers it has very minor symptoms.
Cousins marrying is a ridiculous idea and should be banned because of the genetic consequences.

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