...to feel this about cousin relationships?

[AliceAforethought]

I was chatting with an acquaintance yesterday (a fellow school mum) and she mentioned that a cousin of hers was married to their own first cousin (on the other side, not related to the school mum). I may have said an apparently not too interested “Oh really?” but inside I thought “Eww!”.
The school mum laughed and said “the children seem normal... so far!”

I know it’s legal, but I can’t help but have a feeling of unease/ distaste about cousin relationships. AIBU to feel this? I read some time ago that the risks to any resultant children are not great, but then more recently that it was greater than previously thought.
The school mum clearly felt there was something a bit off about it, too!

Am fully prepared to be told IABU, but wondered if others felt like this? Sleeping with a cousin just seems to have a bit of an ick factor to me!

As I said above, my parents are first cousins...their mothers were sisters. They knew each other as children - my dad saved my mother's life once when she nearly drowned as a child. Nothing happened between them until they were in their twenties and fell in love. They're Catholic so had to apply for special dispensation to marry from the Church, but other than that there were no obstacles.

How can it be nature when so many people do marry their cousins and are absolutely fine with it?

When queen Victoria's children intermarried with relations all over Europe it spread haemophilia and many children were affected

Ah, this is just wrong though. The haemophilia here is thought to have started with a mutation in Victoria’s father. There was no family history. Thereafter, there may be female carriers who may pass it on to their sons. Nothing to do with marrying within the family.

There have been other royal conditions caused by incestuous marriage, though.

How can it be nature when so many people do marry their cousins and are absolutely fine with it?

Not many do, actually. Exceptions, rules and all that.

My daughter is like a sister to her cousins and looks like them too! My nephew is my double and I absolutely can't imagine him marrying my daughter!

What I mean is that there are entire countries, even regions of the world where cousin marriage is seen as normal. Obviously not everyone in those countries actually marry cousins but everyone accepts it and probably all know at least one set of married cousins. How could that be the case if it is natural to feel put off by it?

I have one cousin in the entire world. And I'm the wrong gender for him also, so there's no chance of inbreeding with him.

We've barely ever seen each other - if it wasn't for social media, we wouldn't even be in touch. But I still wouldn't.

These threads are really annoying because so many people come on to post against cousin marriage and then never come back to the thread to engage with the counter arguments.

My parents are second cousins. They met at my auntie's wedding. I think they had met as children but certainly were not close growing up and hadn't seen each other for years before meeting at the wedding.

They only had one child (me!) and I'm pretty normal.

Some of the comments on this thread are pretty disgusting to be honest. I don't feel ashamed of my parents. My Dad was and is my hero. He was the kindest person you could ever wish to meet and I miss him dearly.

I've always been quite open about it and certainly no one has ever made a comment (not to my face anyway!).

@breeze44 there is no counter argument. I believe it's gross and people shouldn't do it. There is nothing else I would debate about it. Nothing will change my mind.

@brookshelley My great grandparents were first cousins back in the 1880's.
They didn't know each other growing up because one lived in London and the other in Leicestershire. They hadn't met until they were in their 20's.

They had 6 children and they all grew up and had children if their own with no obvious problems.

I was surprised to see the relationship when compiling my family tree, and the marriage certificate was odd because everyone had the same surname.

I hope that answers your question over how cousins wouldn't know each other necessarily.

What I mean is that there are entire countries, even regions of the world where cousin marriage is seen as normal. Obviously not everyone in those countries actually marry cousins but everyone accepts it and probably all know at least one set of married cousins. How could that be the case if it is natural to feel put off by it?

Good question, breeze44

Perhaps in those situations the “nature” has been pushed back and suppressed by the strong influence of culture/nurture?

I’d like to think that the reason I would never murder anyone was, at least in part, down to my basic goodness and humanity, as well as having had the “killing is wrong” message from the law, culture, religion etc. as I grew up. I’m sure most of us think that.
But there are places where killing is less frowned on and forms part of a justice system, whether official or not.

The aversion I mentioned is likely a combination of nature /nurture, the influence of either of these (or not) will vary amongst individuals and across cultures.

Maybe.

I think it's natural to be disgusted by it in a close family, it's a protection mechanism. It's terribly sad when babies have genetic issues because their parents didn't just try dating the field a bit.

My DH's family are of Indian origin, so weddings are big affairs with 2nd/3rd cousins and multiple 'aunts' and 'uncles' invited. It's not unusual for guests to have connections, albeit loose, on both sides. I find the whole thing bizarre!

I also have an Indian DP. However, where there are "multiple relationships" it's never between genetic family members. E.g. 2 sisters may marry 2 brothers. Don't see anything wrong with that.

Marrying a family member is incredibly taboo. My DP's aunt wasn't allowed to marry a man she learned came from their ancestral village as they are considered brother and sister. Same with cousins (includes 1st, 2nd, 3rd).

@contraceptionismyfriend I’m talking about the people who have mentioned things like risk of birth defects. Others have pointed out that there’s also a higher risk for older mothers, that the risks with regards to one off cousin marriages are low, that many couples who are not related have children with genetic conditions, that certain ethnic groups have a higher incidence of some genetic diseases regardless of whether they marry cousins or not etc. All of that is largely ignored and people come on and post more of the same.
You saying it’s gross and people shouldn’t do it without giving any reasons why is not even an argument, it’s not persuasive; it’s just a reaction not an argument.

My mother was a special needs teacher. When she started a the school there where one or two children of Asian descent and the others where mainly white. Disability causes ranged from abuse , accidents. Birth abnormalities accidents or problems during. birth . The last picture of her class twenty years later when she retired where all bar two Asians who where the offspring of cousins and some had awful disabilities. There where also families where there where kids of different ages all at the same school with the same disabilities. It was really sad and disturbing.

The BBC had an incredibly biased documentary on Muslim first cousin marriages. I was appalled that a young Muslim girl cited keeping land "in the family" as an advantage (and just generally made light of the entire thing).

Pasithea I don't think it's useful to refer to them blanketly as "Asians". If we are to tackle this issue and lessen the suffering of those poor children we have to acknowledge which community for which it is the norm.

It's a NO from me, thanks

My PILs are first cousins, as were their parents and their siblings are too

@zzzzz

Depends on the blood group hugely. With some extremely rare ones they only originate when the two parents are carriers for a certain type on one of their genes but have the "normal" gene for the other. So say gene 1 is the extremely high frequency found in the rest of the population and gene 2 is the new mutation only in that family. Blood groups are usually co-dominant so the parents will express both blood group 1 and 2. If the child inherits gene 2 on both their genes they will only express blood group 2. They will be incompatible with both parents as they lack blood group 1 and their only hope is that they have another sibling with only group 2 or another random matched individual somewhere in the country with only group 2.

The blood service does it's best to arrange blood internationally for very rare blood groups but if you've been hit by a bus it's not much help if the closest compatible blood for you is in Nigeria and you're in London bleeding to death

@lljkk it is not having blood group antigens that causes issues in transfusion it's the lack of having them that makes people incompatible with others, see the example I gave above about how new mutations in consanginous families can result in children completely incompatible with their parents.

Bombay blood is also a very good example of a recessive blood group that is extremely rare, the parents will be Bombay carriers but if the child inherits 2x Bombay genes they will be incompatible with all other individuals (including the parents) except for other homozygous Bombay individuals. About 0.0004% of individuals across the world are homozygous Bombay individuals and even in India where it's most 'common' it's only about 0.01% of people.

I think it's natural to be disgusted by it in a close family, it's a protection mechanism. It's terribly sad when babies have genetic issues because their parents didn't just try dating the field a bit.

Well, clearly significant numbers of people aren't 'disgusted' by it, and think it's entirely normal. And as less shrieky people have pointed out on a number of occasions on this remarkably disabilist thread, the chances of any form of abnormality from one set of cousins marrying is minimal. Problems occur with repeated cousin marriage.

Communities who tend to do this in the UK are now engaging with genetic counselling before marrying.

@wildbhoysmama

Are you from Glasgow?

I've often been surprised to hear of cousins marrying in English literature (Jane Austen, Dickens etc).

As a one off, probably not too much of a risk unless you know that your family has a significant risk of certain illnesses.

But where it is regularly seen as preferable to marry a cousin, that must be bad news for the health of their babies.

Some religions also ban marriages between cousins. I knew someone who wanted to marry her cousin, but their church refused permission- Greek Orthodox I believe.

Because Dolphins and Cookit, there are numerous individuals who have transient relationships - every time it is with "the one', and what better way to cement the relationship than to seal it with a baby?

And then they split up and each moves on to another, and so it progresses. The odds of these marrying, or at least having a relationship without realising that they are related get increasingly shorter.

You might disagree. That is your right.

The last picture of her class twenty years later when she retired where all bar two Asians who where the offspring of cousins and some had awful disabilities. There where also families where there where kids of different ages all at the same school with the same disabilities. It was really sad and disturbing.

I've seen this in the community too, in my role as Speech and Language Therapist.

The children of cousins (even first cousins), don't often have problems, but where the cousins are themselves children of cousins, who were also children of cousins etc, then there is a much increased incidence of genetic abnormality. Unfortunately for the children affected, this is the way it is in some cultures.