...to feel this about cousin relationships?

[AliceAforethought]

I was chatting with an acquaintance yesterday (a fellow school mum) and she mentioned that a cousin of hers was married to their own first cousin (on the other side, not related to the school mum). I may have said an apparently not too interested “Oh really?” but inside I thought “Eww!”.
The school mum laughed and said “the children seem normal... so far!”

I know it’s legal, but I can’t help but have a feeling of unease/ distaste about cousin relationships. AIBU to feel this? I read some time ago that the risks to any resultant children are not great, but then more recently that it was greater than previously thought.
The school mum clearly felt there was something a bit off about it, too!

Am fully prepared to be told IABU, but wondered if others felt like this? Sleeping with a cousin just seems to have a bit of an ick factor to me!

user1457017537 are you saying a post on cousin marriages in general, which the op has said was about British white people, didn't turn into a thread at one point pretty much chorusing, how 'just looking' at the British Pakistani community 'proves' cousin marriages causes disability?
Pointing out that particular research method as a way to form your views and opinions is not shutting down discussion on the actual topic.
I know a huge amount of British Pakistanis some of them are children of cousins and I don't know 1 with a disability caused by cousin marriage. So stop making assumptions and judgements of people you know nothing about.

My only male cousin is gay so I don't stand a chance

But in the countries I'm familiar with there is no strong influence with regards to marrying a cousin. It's something that people can do if they want but it's not particularly emphasised or insisted on. Most people marry non-cousins (afaik)

So where are these countries, then, given that you were talking about “countries or whole regions where cousin marriage is seen as normal”? Just because it’s not illegal, doesn’t mean everyone sees it as normal.

The army is an organised national defence force for combat on land (other defence forces are available) not a rag tag bunch of hired killers. Sometimes war and conflict happen; we have to be prepared for that in a legal and organised way. But it doesn’t mean “we” as a country don’t think that killing is in general wrong and to be avoided if possible.

So where are these countries, then, given that you were talking about “countries or whole regions where cousin marriage is seen as normal”? Just because it’s not illegal, doesn’t mean everyone sees it as normal.

North Africa. I will give you an example. Family of five siblings, one is married to her cousin, the other four married/engaged to non-relatives. So it is common enough that most people know someone married to a cousin and don't raise any objections, but it is different from countries or communities where there is a real expectation of and pressure to get married to a cousin. In fact, in the family I am talking about the mother and aunty breastfed each other's children to establish a mahram relationship, thereby making it possible for them to be alone together/ not have to wear hijab in front of each other but preventing them from being able to marry. They regretted it later as they realised the cousins might have wanted to marry, but it all worked out in the end as they got married/engaged to other people.

Another example, in a family of 7 one brother is married to a cousin, there was some discussion from another sibling about whether it is preferable to marry a cousin or not, but never ever in terms of it being wrong or abnormal.

So, it is generally quite flexible, not a lot of pressure.

The army is an organised national defence force for combat on land (other defence forces are available) not a rag tag bunch of hired killers. Sometimes war and conflict happen; we have to be prepared for that in a legal and organised way. But it doesn’t mean “we” as a country don’t think that killing is in general wrong and to be avoided if possible

So you would see it more as an exception to a general rule? In that case I understand why you assumed that killing was 'less frowned upon' in countries with capital punishment. But as I mentioned, that's not necessarily the case, usually it is about the distinction between lawful and unlawful killing.

My parents are first cousins and I am pleased to report that neither my sister nor I were born with extra fingers, webbed feet, or vestigial tails! As pp have pointed out, in years gone by when people didn’t tend to move away from their original communities it was fairly common and most people probably have some intermarriage in their family trees if you go back far enough. My mum and dad have had a long and happy marriage and brought up two healthy and (largely) well-adjusted children in a loving and supportive family. I’m not at all bothered by their relationship and have always been pretty amused by the ick factor when people find out, but I have to say some of the pearl clutching on here has been a bit extreme - words like “vile” and “disgusting” don’t seem right in connection with my lovely parents .

breeze

The son’s (and daughters) of Adam didn’t exist

I do find it weird - sorry to all those who think it's perfectly normal. I wouldn't dream of going near a family member. However far removed they are

user1457017537 are you saying a post on cousin marriages in general, which the op has said was about British white people, didn't turn into a thread at one point pretty much chorusing, how 'just looking' at the British Pakistani community 'proves' cousin marriages causes disability?
Pointing out that particular research method as a way to form your views and opinions is not shutting down discussion on the actual topic.
I know a huge amount of British Pakistanis some of them are children of cousins and I don't know 1 with a disability caused by cousin marriage. So stop making assumptions and judgements of people you know nothing about.

@Blablaa well said

There's also a faux naïveté about these threads that nobody could possibly be referring to the BritPak community that is galling.

I have cousins that are married.

My ex mother in law had parents who were first cousins and my ex sister has two children with many genetic problems.

@SemperIdem is that supposed to be persuasive? You must know that billions of people believe that they did exist, and are aware that others don’t believe that, so what’s the point of your post?

I can't see the value of debating this. It is evidently divisive, and most of us are ignorant about it (myself included).

@Panicattack Which is why I brought up the concept of the queen being so much more inbred, and groomed at the age of 13.

Except NO-ONE in the establishment wanted Princess Elizabeth to marry a penniless, homeless migrant, much less one of Louis Mountbattens protoges. the Queen Mother detested Both Louis Mountbatten and called Philip (not so jokingly) 'the hun' - and it wasnt a term of endearment. It was an extrememly controversial match for many reasons. The future dukes of Grafton, Rutland, Buccleuch, and Carnarvon (Henry Porchester) - and 'Porchy' remained a very close life long friend to the point it was much gossiped about in the 1960's that he was Prince Andrews father. . One other consideration was Charlie Spencer, Dianas father. Lucky escape I call that.

.

*The future dukes of Grafton, Rutland, Buccleuch, and Carnarvon (Henry Porchester) - insert , and were considered potential matches for the Queen, and preferred over Philip

I wouldn't dream of going near a family member. However far removed they are

Which is all well and good if you know exactly who you are related to! I had a secret cousin revealed a few years back after another cousin took his new gf home to meet the family. It turned out that an uncle of ours was her biological father but hadn't had contact since she was a baby. Both the cousin and the girlfriend had taken their stepdads last names, they lived in new areas and the connection was never made... They didn't stay together

One other consideration was Charlie Spencer, Dianas father. Lucky escape I call that.

Diana's father was John Spencer. Charles Spencer was Diana's brother!

The future dukes of Grafton, Rutland, Buccleuch, and Carnarvon (Henry Porchester) - insert , and were considered potential matches for the Queen, and preferred over Philip

Except she married Philip. Perhaps because she was being groomed from the age of 13. The rest of the history isn’t really relevant, she ended up in-breeding. Far more dangerous than first cousins marrying as a one off.

I love how people are assuming cousin marriages are not a choice. I’m middle eastern and it certainly is a bloody choice. I did say no to few first cousins. And I did date and go out (as a group) and get engaged to other people before my husband.. around 40 or so to be detailed.

I chose my husband and so did many people I know who married their first cousins. I’m facr, cousin marriages are more likely to be love marriages because the family “trust” the other party more and so give them the blessings to start seeing each other earlier.

As for you OP, in all honesty, you clearly saw the direction of the thread regardless of what the original post was about and yes it is quite “ewww” that while people are informing you that they are children of cousins/ have children from their cousins you are going on with your ignorance about the topic in a judgements way refusing to discuss the science.

So as someone married to their second cousin, and as a molecular biologist, while I totally understand where your science was coming from, but Your sherry attitude and those others on the thread dissecting communities and virtue signalling can all fuck off.

Did anyone mention Aschinazzi Jews yet? And their genetic abnormality in their communities? Is it ethical to discuss them in the undermining way middle eastern and Pakistani cultures are being discussed here ?

No... because it’s a European taboo to sneer at Jews, would be anti Semitic.

I had presented you with scientific debates which continue to be ignored because it doesn’t suit your narrative.

Summary:
Genetic counseling is necessary, there is a lot more emphasis in middle eastern counties on genetic counseling before marriage is processed and blood testing for common alleles. It is widely common knowledge that cousin marriages present more risk as it is common knowledge that conception after 35 could have risks (I think people consider this fact more seriously). People make their choices just like how many women in the UK still decide to give birth after that age and focus on the careers before.

No one judging and calling anyone selfish and no one patronizing.

As for you OP, in all honesty, you clearly saw the direction of the thread regardless of what the original post was about and yes it is quite “ewww” that while people are informing you that they are children of cousins/ have children from their cousins you are going on with your ignorance about the topic in a judgements way refusing to discuss the science
So as someone married to their second cousin, and as a molecular biologist, while I totally understand where your science was coming from, but Your sherry attitude and those others on the thread dissecting communities and virtue signalling can all fuck off

What the flip? I have zero control over what anyone other than me writes on this thread, and have no way of guiding it. I have not refused to discuss any science, and have admitted my ignorance about the scientific aspects of this issue. I’ve also said that I don’t think consanguinity relationships are inherently bad, and that I realise effects on any offspring are minimal; that my feelings are entirely mine and I said I was fully prepared to accept that I was BU.

And for the last time I have not dissected nor even MENTIONED any ethnic group. At all. Not once. I’ll report your next post that accuses me of racism. It’s not fucking on. I’m white British but my DH isn’t.

And if you want to discuss other groups of peoples then go on... don’t get annoyed that others haven’t done it for you.

M4J4 I have read on this thread references to Welsh mining communities, Ashkenazi Jews, and people from the Middle East not just the Pakistani community. So telling me to stop making assumptions and accusing me of faux naïveté is a bit off to be honest.

@user145 as far as I know I have not addressed any posts to you. What are you on about?

It is well documented that any group of humans which does this on a regular basis will start encountering a higher number of genetically related medical problems. Suggesting otherwise is absurd.

It is legally true that some people feel that there cultural priorities and the social benefits outweigh the risks. The law allows them to make that choice.

@PanickAttack

Bloody well said 👏

Have reported you @M4J4 for basically painting the OP as a racist troll, wide eyed and “shocked” that the thread could have taken such a turn.

At no point has she said anything at all that could be construed as racist, she started a thread to see if she was being unusual in her reaction and certain posters have twisted her words and turned this into a bigot bashing thread.

What is “ick” to someone that is passable to another IS worthy of debate. You and others on this thread repeatedly bashing the OP for closet racism shuts this down.

Take your flaming torch elsewhere.

No. Just no.

It's actually legal to marry your cousin, and I do know that.

But it's still weird and wrong as it's waaaaaay too close a kin.