To think that Martina Navratilova should not have to apologise for the transgender comment?

[Nickersnackersnockers]

Rachel McKinnon is a transgender cyclist, who, surprise surprise, is winning races against women.

Ok, maybe Navratilova shouldn't have used the word cheated, but surely nobody can disagree with the fact that Ms McKinnon has a male body, and the size and strength of a man, and having the right to compete against women is just plain wrong?

Some men. Not every man is stronger, faster etc, etc than every woman.

This is surely one of the most nonsensical aspects of the transgender movement. When it comes to brains - where there is no evidence of material gender differences - they insist such differences exist. But when it comes to bodies - where the evidence of disparity is so overwhelming that until about five years ago, to deny it would make you a flat earthed - no, we have to insist no material difference exists.
These people are just stupid.

Flat earther. Damn this autocorrect

"There are plants of amazing and able female professional footballers, who could compete and out play their male counterparts, that are paid a fraction of said male counterparts."

You think mixed sex england teams for football rubgy etc would include talented (cunty) women?

Right-ho then.

Not sure why you find that so hard to understand

SHE was allowed to compete, not sure why you find that 'so hard to understand.'

You think this will be good for womens football / rugby and those women (cunty) who are selected to play for england (!!!) will be able to get paid more and so your stance is a feminist one.

Right-ho.

I think that the balance in wages of athletes is wrong and a way to redress that is to open up sports to ALL who meet the ability criteria.

DauntlessFaction

Should men with low testosterone who are not trans, be allowed to compete in the womens categories if they wish?

Thanks rightreckoner I'll look into this I thought everyone was mostly silent on the issue.

PinkyU I understand what you are saying but unfortunately I dont think it works that way. If I'm correct even the lung capacity of men is greater. Even if and a woman have similar ability with extra training a man could exceed what woman of similar build could achieve.

I'm somewhat cynical and very sceptical about trans men who lose to female opponents once in a while but pull it out the bag for the major win. Maybe I'm wrong.

What you’re doing, dauntless, is repeating a disputed assertion. And you’re confusing that with explanation. A common problem, among members of your faith community. But it’s not going to cut much ice with thinking people.

Pinky do you think the balance is wrong because women are getting any of it at all?

Your idea is certainly a sure fire way to put a stop to that

Wimbledon prize money>
Mens singles money to man
Womens singles money to woman who used to be a man

The vast, vast majority of men are stronger and faster than women.

"open up sports to ALL who meet the ability criteria."

No women or girls will meet the "ability criteria" for the vast majority of sports at higher competition levels.

Not every man is stronger, faster etc, etc than every woman.

They pretty much are Pinky. Most male high school runners can beat the woman's world record without any training.

The difference is puberty. Males and females are pretty level until puberty hits and then the male body changes massively. There is no way to change it back. You can remove genitals (although this is not necessary and most don't) and you can lower testosterone. That's it.

You can't make their hearts or lungs smaller for example so there's no way to make them 'physically' even with women.

The more I read the more concern I have about what this ideological stance (women are just as strong powerful fast etc as men and ?the same size??) the more I worry about what the impact will be on how VAWG is perceived.

At the moment it is understood that is a man targets a woman then the woman is at a disadvantage. This new vision means that she shuold be able to fight him off and if she didn't why not?

The man on the radio with sharron davies said that she could have beaten the men if only she'd bothered training harder.
Men will be claiming that we are vilnerabel to them becasue we choose to be.

When I was 15 I played rugby with 14 year old boys. It was against the rules as mixed sex rugby is not allowed after the age of 12 but the coach turned a blind eye as I had no girls teams to play in.
I could only manage 1 year with them because 12 months on into a male puberty they were all so much bigger and stronger than me. It was scary and unsafe.
That's why sports are segregated by sex and men, no matter how they identify, should not be allowed to play in women's/girls sports.

SHE was allowed to compete, not sure why you find that 'so hard to understand.

Completely side stepping the point. Well done.
Clearly basic biology is too complicated for you to grasp that human beings with a penis and a Y chromosome are in fact men.

What I dont understand are authorities at every level in every domain falling over themselves to to avoid being carted off to court by a bunch of entitled men who scream' Discrimination' and 'Transphobic' at every opportunity. But fuck the rights of women to object to men yet again bleating and whining about their rights to invade female space and sport

@DonaldTwain has summed you up perfectly

So this whole thing repositions from

women are at a biological disadvantage to men as a basic fact

to

women could be as strong fast etc as men, but we are weak becasue we choose to be

?because femininity (docile, gentle, non competitive)
?we could be as "good" as men but we choose not to be > male is default and women are like men but substandard

trans athletes have said reducing testosterone makes them feel weaker

but a weakened man =/= a woman

the whole thing is gross misogyny

If she can’t, sardine, it will be down to her ladybrain, no doubt, not her lady body.
And thus fact, truth and reason is thrown out of the window, and idiots rule.

GassyAss

Did you consider trying a bit harder?

Rather than giving up?

Pah women are rubbish.

McKinnon is sexually attracted to biological women. McKinnon says this makes McKinnon a lesbian.

McKinnon says those lesbians who are biological women can learn to 'cope' with penises.

McKinnon says lesbians who are biological women and who exclude people with penises from their sexual partners are transphobes.

Pinky have you ever watched high level women's football? It's much slower than men's and looks like a completely different game. Women may have the ability to control the ball well, but there are no players on any top women's teams whose running can match that of even a reasonably fit man.
Endurance sport is one area where women seem to have the ability to compete with men, but that relies on neither strength nor speed.
I respect the rights of transgender people, but they are not the equivalent of a 'normal' woman. Separate categories are probably needed - or just accept that they will not be able to be professional athletes.

It occurs to me that given the propensity of some of the adherents of genderism to distort statements, my reference in previous post to membership of a faith community was intended to convey the idea that genderism is an article of faith not of fact, and was not a reference to imputed membership of any organised religion.
Most organised religions make a lot more sense.

"Endurance sport is one area where women seem to have the ability to compete with men,"

And win!!!!

Yay!!!!!

There aren't many sports where this is the case though.

The fact that all sports we know were invented by men, for men to play, to showcase the things that men are good at probably doesn't help.

I bet there are things we are better at but god knows what they are as it's hard to imagine what things would be like if men hadn't run everything forever!

McKinnon also says that males should not need to take any drugs or alter their bodies in any way to compete with women, as long as they say they identify as a woman.