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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think that Martina Navratilova should not have to apologise for the transgender comment?

269 replies

Nickersnackersnockers · 03/03/2019 12:47

Rachel McKinnon is a transgender cyclist, who, surprise surprise, is winning races against women.

Ok, maybe Navratilova shouldn't have used the word cheated, but surely nobody can disagree with the fact that Ms McKinnon has a male body, and the size and strength of a man, and having the right to compete against women is just plain wrong?

OP posts:
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Aeroflotgirl · 03/03/2019 13:44

I agree with you, it gives male bodies an unfair advantage of female ones for obvious reasons. Yes you still have a male body if you self id as a woman, nothing changes in face some still retain their male genitals. I bet the men would be speaking out and something done, if this was reversed.

Fairenuff · 03/03/2019 13:44

Rachel M was not cheating because the sports rules allowed it. It's the rules that need to be re-examined with scientific back up which is what Martina is saying.

The BBC article is biased. They took parts of her blog instead of printing it's entirety. Here is if anyone is interested.

SardineQueenII · 03/03/2019 13:44

What do you think a top ranking mixed rugby team will consist of, Pinky?

SardineQueenII · 03/03/2019 13:46

"I bet the men would be speaking out and something done, if this was reversed."

It is reversed

Transmen are allowed to compete against men, with no restriction, and even, I believe, if they are on testisterone.

The reason men are not making a fuss is because this inclusion will not change the way mens sport looks one little bit.

Aeroflotgirl · 03/03/2019 13:46

PinkyU this is flawed, even though men and women would be evenly matched, a male body is stronger, with more muscle mass, faster than a female body, the males would still be at an advantage, so the males would more often than not, win.

PinkyU · 03/03/2019 13:46

Sorry, I’m not sure what you mean?

Aeroflotgirl · 03/03/2019 13:47

Sardine if males had the less stronger bodies.

TeenTimesTwo · 03/03/2019 13:47

It might not be cheating as per the rules, if the rules are so stupid as to allow it.
But morally it is cheating.
Someone with all the advantages of a male body, (bar artificially lowering testosterone to still be 3x average female level), should not be competing against female bodied people.

SardineQueenII · 03/03/2019 13:47

What do you think the mixed rugby team in a secondary school will look like, Pinky?

I expect you are looking forward to watching some boxing. Ice Hockey. Martial arts. Etc.

Imissgmichael · 03/03/2019 13:48

Nope definitely cheating.

SardineQueenII · 03/03/2019 13:49

Pinky you say you are in favour of mixed sex sports across the board.

What do you think the mixed team for England rugby would look like?
How many women (cunty) would be on it?
How many transmen, even?

KingHenrysCodpiece · 03/03/2019 13:49

I think though that there should be segregation based on ability and physicality, as is seen in the para and special Olympics

I'm not a scientist but I don't think it's that simple.

PinkyU · 03/03/2019 13:50

Being evenly matched eradicates that issue Aero, that’s the definition.

A woman of similar ability and physicality to a man would not be disadvantaged because they have the same physical ability. What might separate them is skill and experience.

DonaldTwain · 03/03/2019 13:51

I think the word cheating makes ethical sense here, definitely. And I think that’s how Martina was using it, not in any strict legal sense.

SardineQueenII · 03/03/2019 13:51

Pinky what do you think the mixed rugby england team will look like?

What do you think the mixed rugby teams in secondary schools will look like?

rightreckoner · 03/03/2019 13:51

kinghenry they are all tweeting agreement with Martina and retweeting Fair Play for Women’s document on this. To almost universal approval. But the BBC are barely covering this. Ditto the Guardian. If you read the Times or the Daily Mail you may have seen something about it but people like me - left of centre and a one time BBC fan - have been entirely hoodwinked by their media outlets.

The BBC are betraying not only women but their commitment to truthful and unbiased reporting in respect of this issue.

SardineQueenII · 03/03/2019 13:53

Why do you want to drive women and girls out of sport across the board?

Which is what you are saying.

In a school there are not enough people for loads for categories.

Mixed competition in all sports will mean either
Girls always get beaten
Girls never get selected
Girls get injured (and then beaten and deselected)

SardineQueenII · 03/03/2019 13:56

I used to play fight my brother when we were kids.

Well I say play it was often just fighting Grin

Then he hit puberty and all of a sudden it was completely different

We had one fight and I think we were both taken aback by how much stronger he was

We didn't physically fight any more

Is the new idea that women and girls should be able to fight men easily and if they can't then they are giving in on purpose / not really trying?

If your philosophy says there is no difference between men and women in terms of strength then it has a lot of consequences for how VAWG is viewed. Women and girls can fight back and are just as strong. Why don't they? Huh? They must be choosing not to.

PinkyU · 03/03/2019 13:57

There are plants of amazing and able female professional footballers, who could compete and out play their male counterparts, that are paid a fraction of said male counterparts.

Perhaps mixed teams of ability matched players might redress the disparity?

PickledLimes · 03/03/2019 13:58

PinkyU. Women and men do not have the same physical ability. Men are far stronger, faster, are more powerful,have a longer reach, longer stride, faster reaction times etc. There are only a few sports where women and men can compete on a relatively level playing field.

Fairenuff · 03/03/2019 13:58

Provided that a man and woman are evenly matched, I can’t see an issue with them competing against one and other.

The only current need is lowering of testosterone to a level that is still higher than women's. Can you really see no other advantage other than testosterone?

To think that Martina Navratilova should not have to apologise for the transgender comment?
TeenTimesTwo · 03/03/2019 13:59

I think though that there should be segregation based on ability and physicality, as is seen in the para and special Olympics

I don't know about the SN Olympics, but the paras are segregated first by sex and then by physical disability. Not by sporting ability.

RedHelenB · 03/03/2019 14:00

Here's an idea, let's have a separate transgender event.

Intohellbutstayingstrong · 03/03/2019 14:01

@dauntless
Does RM have a penis?
Does RM have a Y chromosome?

So yes....she is in fact a he competing in women's sports.
Not sure why you find that so hard to understand.
Or are you now going to tell me that he 'feels' like a woman so he must be a woman Hmm
He saw an opportunity to go top of his game in women's sports and he took it because no sports authority has the guts or common sense to point out the glaringly obvious that he is a man and will therefore have an unfair advantage. But hey....fuck the women he is competing against. As long as his rights are respected and recognised that is all that matters.

Fairenuff · 03/03/2019 14:01

The BBC are biased.

Up to 0.75% of the UK population are transgender.

2% of BBC senior employees are transgender.