To think that Martina Navratilova should not have to apologise for the transgender comment?

[Nickersnackersnockers]

Rachel McKinnon is a transgender cyclist, who, surprise surprise, is winning races against women.

Ok, maybe Navratilova shouldn't have used the word cheated, but surely nobody can disagree with the fact that Ms McKinnon has a male body, and the size and strength of a man, and having the right to compete against women is just plain wrong?

Pencils, I appreciate your points. Probably best if I just drop it really.

Fairenuff - yes, that's well put.

they did seem to better understand why I see it this way.

Yet another rendition of a man telling women "ur doin rong".

CallipygianFancier do you believe that TWAW?

This is what the problem is. The trans ideology is that TWAW.

Highlighting differences between TW and women in sport completely blows their assertion apart. If they accept that there are differences between TW and women, then they have to accept that TWANW.

That's why they are fighting this so hard.

Biologically, no, when it comes right down to it.

But I try my best to treat trans people as being the gender they are now/present as/however you wish to phrase it, and as such I'm happy to treat trans women as women whenever possible.

It's when it starts affecting other people it all gets a bit messy.

Congratulations, that makes you a transphobic bigot. Welcome to the club.

We have biscuits.

Also, unless you'd consider a transwoman with a penis as sexual partner (or, if you're gay - a transman with a vagina) - then that also makes you a transphobic bigot. Sorry to be crude, but there it is. This is the end-result of the Transwomen are women mantra.

Lesbians have been facing this pressure for years - and been abused/threatened with rape & violence - just for knowing there's a biological difference between women and transwomen.

In fact, there are instances where lesbians have met with actual violence for refusing the advances of a transwoman.

Reasonable Assertions: On Norms of Assertion and Why You Don't Need to Know What You're Talking About

Yep, I reckon McK was put up to it by their PhD supervisor as a sociological experiment.

If McK was any kind of woman he'd be delighted to be able to compete against men.

And deal with this kind of thing www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/sport/other/womens-race-prestigious-cycling-event-forced-stop-after-breakaway-leader-almost-caught-up-men?variant=tb_v_1

But that might be a little too authentic. After all, he's only a tourist here

I'll hold off on the biscuits, I still need to lose some weight.

Another thing to bear in mind re sports is that whilst TRAs are insisting that transwomen be included in female sports, no-one is talking about people who identify as non binary in sports.

Where do they fit in and why are the TRAs not trying to make provision for them. Are they not as important as transwomen? Excluding them would be transphobic would it not?

Ignoring the fact that transwomen are also men, if you mean non trans men, then there are many of them who are only too happy to throw around the term Terf to insult and belittle women and do what they can to assist the transactivists in taking over women's spaces. Not so much because they care about Trans rights but more often because they don't care about women or actively despise them. A quick look about Internet forums like Reddit will make this clear.

Pencils, I appreciate your points. Probably best if I just drop it really.

Is this man-speak for “sorry, I realise now that, unlike the well-informed and erudite women who frequent this board, I had no idea what I was talking about and was indeed guilty of the crime of mansplaining. I will henceforth desist”?

I'm afraid it isn't, no.

It means the way Pencils explained the situation made sense to me, and I decided it would be best if I just dropped the subject. Seeing as I don't actually disagree with the main point of all this stuff, I'm not looking to cause further disruption over a minor part of it which - given how evidently the public are supporting Navratilova - clearly isn't causing much of a problem in terms of swaying people anyway.

I'm sick and tired of women being fucked over by men. It's deeply concerning that women are constantly being admonished for purely recognising biological reality.

Provided that a man and woman are evenly matched

Not all that likely though, is it?

There are plants of amazing and able female professional footballers, who could compete and out play their male counterparts

Are there, bollocks!!!!

Reposting Dutch's link as I'm incredulous

www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/sport/other/womens-race-prestigious-cycling-event-forced-stop-after-breakaway-leader-almost-caught-up-men?variant=tb_v_2

This is the position women are in in so many different situations all the time. We have to step down to let the men "shine".

We're fucking sick of it.

And it is an excellent point that any female athlete would be made up to be able compete against the men as it would mean that she was phenomenally, insanely good.