Is it offensive or am I being silly?

[CocaColaaa]

Just a quick one but NC for this as I guess its outing.

My childrens school are doing world book day and the “theme” is peter pan, its given some suggestions of characters you can dress up as and one is tigerlilly. I was thinking of chosing that one for DD as I hate all of the tinkerbell dresses but ive heard its offensive to dress up as certain things. Native americans being on of them. Is it offensive or am I being silly? Why oh why do they have to do themes and not just let people pick their favourite book characters 😩

I think people are “attacking” Coren because he has shown himself in the past to be a bit of a git. I can’t comment on the article because I can’t read it.

No, I'm attacking Coren because he's a vile racist/misogynist and disablist arrogant, overpaid insufferable twat even if he may have a point once in a while, and complaining that you weren't racist in one particular incident when there's evidence of your racism on other occasions isn't exactly the strongest of defences. That does not mean that I think that the picture(which I cannot see) was anti-Semitic.

I gave to say that if I rented a house and there were gollywogs and caricatures of Jewish people on the walls, I might be a bit concerned too!

We don't actually know whether the typical Native American man on the street is concerned or unconcerned, do we? It would be nice to have a proper survey done. At the moment, his opinion is being assumed, not sought.

Do you think that all those Native peoples in the videos are actually aliens in disguise? Why, do their opinions not count?

Caroline as has already been pointed out to you, there is no typical Native American man. There are literally hundreds of different NA cultures. I know you’re on the wind up but please try not to be so ignorant.

I'm not exactly sure what you'd classify as your average Native American either.

You "know" I'm on the wind up, do you? I don't accept your lack of comprehensive data, so I'm on the wind up? Nice try.

So, Caroline, how would you design this "proper survey",, what sort of sample size would you go for, how would you weight it across age groups, different tribes?

So there you go, @Bertrand. Context is all. Would you be concerned about the caricature if you knew it belonged to a Jewish family?

The gollywogs are different. He was an idiot to leave them there.

Why do you want so much to dress up as a Native American?

Despite your continually rebarbative manner; your rudeness; your refusal to consider the detail of opposing views; your baseless accusations of racism, it must be someone else who is “on the wind up”? Priceless!

“So there you go, @Bertrand. Context is all. Would you be concerned about the caricature if you knew it belonged to a Jewish family?

The gollywogs are different. He was an idiot to leave them there.”

I think leaving a picture like that on the wall of a rented house is on a spectrum that starts at stupid and ends at provocative, whoever does it.

You "know" I'm on the wind up, do you? I don't accept your lack of comprehensive data, so I'm on the wind up?

Ok, describe the average Native American man on the street then, the only person whose opinion you’ll accept. What does he look like? What clothes is he wearing? Hairstyle? Accent? Go for it, I’m listening.

recrudescence more Caroline’s insistence that she’ll only listen to the average Native American - I really am looking forward to hearing this description of him.

Actually, that is an excellent question myrtle. I think someone could certainly get a postgrad project out of it. Any peer review would need to be shown more than some videos and local newspapers, of course. Certainly films of topics on the internet are a good place to start, but more depth is needed and that needs research boots on the ground. In the meantime, nobody can definitely know the opinions of the silent majority until they have asked them. Or, as you suggest, have proper sample size with tribal populations allowed for.

As an aside I do hate it when I mistakenly leave my Gollywog figurine collection on full display when renting out my home. I'm always doing it. It's so easily done though.

Indeed.

And here we have an OP who recognises the context of Tiger-Lily to Native Americal Culture and still thinks it's OK for her DD to chose that as a costume for WBD.

Fuck me. Dismissing Indigenous voices because you aren't convinced that they are sufficiently 'Average Native American' enough is so incredibly wrong and racist. It's no different to the idiots in the YouTube comment who have decided that they don't conform to their idea of what a Native American looks like(Some are too light skinned apparently) and therefore they know nothing about Native American issues and aren't qualified to speak on the subject.

Oh come on, that picture is of him and his dad and has been part of his life for as long as he can remember. Why would it even occur to him that it would be construed as anti Semitic? All you’re doing now is proving his point.

Thankfully the OP has listened and decided that her daughter will not be going as TigerLily

Pumper are you funny.

Pickled, almost funnier but we'll settle for a tie.

Caroline I’m certainly not trying to be. Are you ignorant?

Still waiting for your description.

“Oh come on, that picture is of him and his dad and has been part of his life for as long as he can remember. Why would it even occur to him that it would be construed as anti Semitic? All you’re doing now is proving his point.“

I can quite see how he might not have realised. But surely, when it was pointed out to him, the sensible response would be “Oh shit, yes that might look a bit dodgy to a stranger-particularly when combined with the gollywogs!”

See above re survey. Facts, my dear.