Is it offensive or am I being silly?

[CocaColaaa]

Just a quick one but NC for this as I guess its outing.

My childrens school are doing world book day and the “theme” is peter pan, its given some suggestions of characters you can dress up as and one is tigerlilly. I was thinking of chosing that one for DD as I hate all of the tinkerbell dresses but ive heard its offensive to dress up as certain things. Native americans being on of them. Is it offensive or am I being silly? Why oh why do they have to do themes and not just let people pick their favourite book characters 😩

You'd get the impression from this thread that Indigenous people were demanding both kidneys from all white people when they're just requesting that Non Natives don't dress in 'Indian costumes'.

They may take our organs, but, they can never take... our Tigerlily costumes!

That survey won’t paint a picture of the average Native American that you’re so desperate to hear from.

Racism, my dear.

I always take my information from videos, and never trust academic research. Try it! It's much easier than all that pesky studying people waste their lives on. Actually, let's not teach children at all, just let them educate themselves on youtube.

What academic research?! The survey that you made up that you decided would be a good way to convince you that the ‘typical Native American man’ doesn’t mind a bit of cultural appropriation? Instead of the YouTube videos by actual Native American people, actual first hand accounts, who say they do?

Or should we decide that because it doesn’t trouble a couple of white British people that it’s not a problem anywhere? Is that a better thing to teach the children?

Caroline- why is it so important to you that children dress up as Tiger Lily?

Yes your years of being willingly obtuse and dismissing racism and the voices of the people affected have certainly paid off.

Please do forgive me for linking to articles and videos created and by Indigenous people and foolishly thinking that they have any relevance whatsoever to this issue. I did order an Average Native American last week so that I could question him for you, but as they're unsure what he or she looks like it's been terribly difficult to catch him. I have his teepee all ready too. Very inconsiderate.

Bertrand, because we have had some sanctimonious priggery rampant on this thread, and I think children are the innocent victims in this insane culture of offence.

That word ‘victim’ again Caroline - how strange that you’d be so offended by children not being allowed to dress as racist caricatures that you’d use a word you profess to hate.

Bertrand, because we have had some sanctimonious priggery rampant on this thread, and I think children are the innocent victims in this insane culture of offence.

Aaaaand there we have it. Fuck the feelings of marginalised people just as long as little Timothy and little Jemima get to dress up as racist stereotypes, I guess.

Yep. Children are being victimised by not dressing up as Tiger Lily.

You couldn’t, as they say, make it up!

You have not proved to my satisfaction that the costume will cause widespread offence. You are offended, but you don't speak for a whole culture...or are you actually an elected representative?

I can see the adverts now. Blue eyed, blonde toddler in her bed coughing and looking weak and imploring. Her Mother lovingly holds her hand. 'Voiceover. Perhaps there's still a chance. If only someone, somewhere has a spare 'Indian' costume in their wardrobe... Cue video of smiling UPS man delivering the TigerLily outfit. Cute child smiles too. Now there's hope! She's coming to life and there's a shot of her and her Mother in matching TigerLily costumes joyfully dancing around an Argos teepee whooping and waving their plastic tomahawks. Narrator. 'You too can save a white child from Indigenous oppression. Just dial 1-800-IMNOTARACISTBUT

Perhaps "victim" is not exactly what I want to convey, of course. I am a slow typist so in my haste to respond to each new character assassination I could perhaps have chosen better. Feel free to ignore that misdescription.

You have not proved to my satisfaction that the costume will cause widespread offence. You are offended, but you don't speak for a whole culture...or are you actually an elected representative?

Are you?

Not allowing your children to dress as tigerlilly causes no offense. Allowing your children to dress as tigerlilly might cause offense. Why would you deliberately be unkind when it’s so avoidable?

See above recanting of term used. But glad it gave you an excuse for some hyperbole ;-)

My children, my choice. No unkindness intended. Get It?

What word would you replace “victim” with?

No, because it's bullshit.

Also, inbuilt aversion to being told what to think by random keyboard warriors.

And yet, you’ve knowingly been unkind if you allow your children to dress as racist stereotypes. It may not be your intent (although how could it not be after this thread?) but it is definitely the end result. Your children your choice is a strange one too, why pass on ignorance?

My land.My choice. I'm taking me a slave. Don't worry, I'm doing it with love.

So we only have to be not-unkind if we're likely to be unkind to lots of people, is that the message Caroline? How does one pre-emptively decide what level of unkindness is likely to be felt? Less than 50% - crack on, bring out the gollywog costumes??

As in, I can choose to let them wear or not. I choose to side with their preference. Until you start banning costumes, I'm afraid you're just going to have to lump it. Why don't you take it up with Amazon?

“Until you start banning costumes, I'm afraid you're just going to have to lump it.”
Fair enough. If you’d said that at the beginning we would have been spared the thread.

Wow, this is like the worst pensioners' coach trip ever. Hope they've packed that crate of stout.