To think perhaps schools should insist on vaccinations.

[Lovestonap]

Good animal boarding kennels etc will not take animals without their vaccinations up to date.
Should our schools be able to insist on a completed course of childhood vaccinations (up to age appropriate) before giving a space at a school? Obviously children who are unable to be vaccinated would have a medical exemption certificate. I think this would be a good idea, but then I'm wondering if this is a nanny state too far thing. Probably implications for human rights I haven't considered.

*reliable

Bodily autonomy is more important than your inability to think critically and contain your hysteria. Stop this nonsense. Honestly.

No, the protection of our vulnerable members of society is the priority. Bodily autonomy is a nice idea but there’s plenty of things we aren’t allowed to do with our bodies. Purposely allowing children to be victims and carriers of preventable diseases putting themselves and others at risk of harm and death isn’t acceptable. It’s not hysteria.

Onehand

So you object to requirements being imposed because vaccination would be done partly on behalf of others (to protect them from horrible diseases); but you’re happy to argue solely on others’ behalf (since a schools mandatory vac policy wouldn’t affect you)?

How about the introduction of mandatory vacs (with exemption on proper medical grounds) and people can make their own minds up about whether to home ed or not?

*How does 'herd immunity' work then? Because I know most adults haven't been vaccinated and you know how many of them continue to enter the public sphere when ill?

Vaccines are not 100% effective they work by spreading the outbreak of diseases if a sufficient promotion of the population are vaccinated. The bodily autonomy argument is also silly. No one consents to getting infected with a disease. The person getting the vaccination is a child who can't consent in any case.

I live overseas and we have to show our child's vaccination records before they are admitted to school.

@Onehandinmypocket
It's worldwide. WHO website has all the info.

Uk still has about 5000 tb cases a year. Which is ridiculous tbh. In 2012 280 ppl died from it. And if one doesn't die from it, there is often damage lasting lifetime. In 2018 Scotland had 34 deaths.

It's not facist gov when they have to do something so kids have better chance to actually live to an adulthood🙄

@greenelephantscarf Thanks, I just had a look. Most of the deaths occurred in developing countries where good nutrition, hygiene and medical care are severely lacking.

I know a fair few anti vaxxers (am not one myself). They all home educate their children anyway, so this wouldn't make them do anything differently. It might motivate people who don't vaccinate due to missed appointments/general neglect and not giving a shit, but it wouldn't change anything for a lot of the people who don't vaccinate as they've "educated" themselves with online conspiracy theories.

@Prequelle "there are plenty of things we aren't allowed to do with our bodies" I'm not arguing to be able to DO things, I'm arguing for the government to not be able to do things to our bodies. There's a difference and you know it.

Are you suggesting that some people don't deserve or shouldn't be able to earn a living and support their families? Because homeschooling requires at least one parent to stay at home and if that parent is doing it solo then they lose the ability to work. Then of course, if they choose to work and leave their child at home, you would be up in arms about that too. Stop using the government to control what other people do. I can't imagine a future where you won't regret such a decision.

It would affect me, because I don't want the government to ever have that kind of control. It is amazing to me that anyone could advocate for this. It truly is.

The government wouldn’t be forcing anything. Don’t want to help protect society? Want to pose a risk to others? That’s fine, but there’ll be limits to protect others from your choices.

In the Middle East, no BCG and MMR, no school.

No, what’s scary is watching your child fight for every breath thanks to a vaccine-preventable illness. Knowing that someone brought that illness into a NICU and could have killed them. Yes, most of those cases are in developing countries, but if society does not vaccinate at sufficient levels we see outbreaks in areas with low vaccination rates, as is happening in America right now. Vaccines are the reason we are not all very familiar with these illnesses, and that distance from them gives people a false sense of security. If you’d seen the things that I saw during my son’s HDU stay (not just with him but with other babies who were seriously ill) there’d be no question of not vaccinating.

And both my sons have ASD, I don’t believe it has anything to do with vaccinations whatsoever, but even if it had i would much prefer them to be alive, thanks.

@Prequelle If you really feel that children and families should be punished because you can't rationally think about this issue, that's pretty shitty.

I feel like there should be a tonne of things society could do to help each other, forcing others to relinquish their right to bodily autonomy is certainly not one of them.

Vaccines carry risk, potentially life threatening risks. You cannot reasonably ask that people be forced into taking that kind of risk by the government. I don't know how you even feel justified suggesting it.

It would affect me, because I don't want the government to ever have that kind of control. It is amazing to me that anyone could advocate for this. It truly is.

So in those countries where they do have such legislation, what heinous assaults on human rights have followed?

We all have to make choices - those choices have consequences. Not being able to potentially spread communicable diseases to vulnerable people if you choose not to vaccinate against them should be one of those choices. Why should other people’s children die or end up with lifelong disabilities because others chose not to take steps to prevent them?

Vaccines carry risk, potentially life threatening risks.

Evidence please? Those with conditions that would cause negative effects as a result of vaccinations would be medically exempt.

Anaphylactic reactions to vaccinations are extremely rare, but are the reason that vaccinations are done in a medical setting rather than a community setting.

@SinkGirl I don't know, why don't you ask the parents of a vaccine injured child? Or are they just collateral damage?

I'm sorry about your baby's illness, nature is cruel sometimes. Truly is.

Oh, and if a vaccination runs the risk of making someone seriously ill, what do you think the illness itself would do?

My son has a condition that causes severe hypoglycaemia when not managed. Viruses can exacerbate this. As such, live vaccines could be a problem for him, but nothing compared to the actual illnesses themselves.

If you really feel that children and families should be punished because you can't rationally think about this issue, that's pretty shitty.

I would appreciate it if you stopped trying to accuse folk of being ‘irrational’ when there’s absolutely nothing irrational about trying to protect the vulnerable people in our society. You’re putting those families in a passive sentence there, they aren’t being punished, they’re facing the consequences of their own decisions. Because there’s options. If you want to live in a society and want to benefit from what society has to offer then you have an obligation to said society. You have an obligation to ensure you do things in your power to prevent the harm of others, and if you’re not willing to do that well that’s okay but what you’re NOT gunna do is actively pose a risk by being able to infect people with things you’re carrying because you decided you knew better than worldwide health institutions.

Want your cake and eat it too huh.

I feel like there should be a tonne of things society could do to help each other, forcing others to relinquish their right to bodily autonomy is certainly not one of them.

Nobody is arguing for forced vaccination. If parents are (irrationally) against vaccinating their children they could always avoid doing so. They would just have to give up an opportunity that society provides generally for children’s free education.

It’s the selfishness of anti-vaxxers that’s the problem here, not the adoption of a sensible public health policy.

@Onehandinmypocket

No-one is forcing you to vaccinate but they are preventing you from spreading diseases to other people by allowing you children to come in every day when they may be carrying diseases. People die every year due to preventable diseases.

Are you suggesting that some people don't deserve or shouldn't be able to earn a living and support their families? Because homeschooling requires at least one parent to stay at home and if that parent is doing it solo then they lose the ability to work. Then of course, if they choose to work and leave their child at home, you would be up in arms about that too. Stop using the government to control what other people do. I can't imagine a future where you won't regret such a decision.

Choices have consequences. If a parent chooses not to do things that the state has asked them to do, for the good of the individual and the community, such as vaccination, it’s questionable that they should still retain full full access to the benefits (financial and education) that the state provides and pays for.

The choice an individual makes not to vaccinate has, on a cumulative level, higher costs and impacts on the wider community and on the state. Why should that choice be free of consequences in terms of access to the services and benefits the state pays for?
Do you advocate a mature, reciprocal relationship between the individual and the state, or a childish one where the state keeps providing regardless of infantile and uneducated temper tantrums?

Tricky one. Whilst I think it should be up to the parents to chose, when it starts affecting the rest of the population (and additional associated costs), I think absolutely they should.

Did anyone see on yesterday’s bbc breakfast? There was a woman whose 11 month old contracted measles (she was too young for her jab), she recovered well but at 25 she came down with a complication due to the measles and was now in a very poorly state and will be like that for life.
I cannot defend someone’s right to chose when it causes someone else that.

Vaccine injury is an absolute load of bollocks. Vaccine injury seems to be anything that happens post vaccine. So I could stub my toe on the stairs following a jab and that’s a vaccine injury according to some people.

The risk of anaphylaxis or other untoward event is incredibly rare.

@Prequelle So, in other words, the rich continue to be free to make decisions in the best interests of their families and the poor can suck it. Gotcha.

Doesn't matter, as the saying goes.. be careful what you wish for.