To think perhaps schools should insist on vaccinations.

[Lovestonap]

Good animal boarding kennels etc will not take animals without their vaccinations up to date.
Should our schools be able to insist on a completed course of childhood vaccinations (up to age appropriate) before giving a space at a school? Obviously children who are unable to be vaccinated would have a medical exemption certificate. I think this would be a good idea, but then I'm wondering if this is a nanny state too far thing. Probably implications for human rights I haven't considered.

cath I'm a Registered Nurse. Don't blame me for you not being clear as to what you're talking about, if you're going to throw irrelevant things into a conversation then people will be confused.

The human microbiome..essential to our immune system... present in differing numbers before during and after disease.

Then I suggest you research Bechamp and Pasteur to understand what I’m talking about

I'm so sorry that you've obviously had all these words and things thrown at you and to you they make sense but they just... dont.

The majority of the human microbiota is made up of bacterium that is our 'natural flora'. I'm assuming you're talking about germ theory when you mention Bechamp, Pasteur. Tell me, how does this relate to someone picking up, TB? HPV? Or rabies? Or smallpox? Are you trying to say that these can become part of the 'microbiome' and thus we shouldn't vaccinate? Is that why you're mentioning microbiota? Do you honestly think people can contract these viruses and just have them happily join the body?

Perfectly healthy people generally don’t die of viruses... there’s invariably an underlying medical condition

No, there isn’t. It can play a role, but if pandemic epidemiology has taught us anything, it’s how little we still know in this field.

Perfectly healthy people generally don’t die of viruses... there’s invariably an underlying medical condition

What about the Ebola virus, indeed all viral haemorrhagic fevers? Does fine health and a jolly good natural diet make those just a passing inconvenience?

Read Virus Mania by Claus Kohlein and Torsten Englebrecht

TB is bacteria and many people have it in their microbiome without symptoms of disease.

And the answer is...?

Perfectly healthy people generally don’t die of viruses... there’s invariably an underlying medical condition

You are so thick.

Do you really think Spanish 'flu after the IWW killed the feeble? Even at the time it was none that young/youngish adults constituted the mass of deaths

Bugger: noted not none. Angry at culpable ignorance of cath.

Read Virus Mania by Claus Kohlein and Torsten Englebrecht

Does Koehnlein have anything peer reviewed?

I’m always cautious about putting too much store in popular science, particularly when the lead author is a journalist. Even more so when the book promotes on its cover the thoroughly disproven fraudulent link between vaccines and autism.

Here’s a longer blurb about the book:

A daily scan through the news gives the impression that the world is constantly invaded by virus epidemics. The latest headlines feature the human papillomavirus (HPV) alleged to cause cervical cancer and the avian flu virus, H5N1. The public is also continually terrorized by reports about SARS, BSE, hepatitis C, AIDS, Ebola, and polio. However, this virus mayhem ignores very basic scientific facts: the existence, the pathogenicity and the deadly effects of these agents have never been proven. The authors of Virus Mania, journalist Torsten Engelbrecht and doctor of internal medicine Claus Köhnlein, show that these alleged contagious agents are, in fact, particles produced by the cells themselves as a consequence of certain stress factors such as drugs, malnutrition, pesticides and heavy metals.

No, I won’t be reading that.

But on behalf of Cath I think I can now say that her answer to my question about Ebola is, yes, it’s all a matter of diet. Bonkers.

Cath, to be helpful, a list of the main points I’m hoping you’ll have the courtesy to respond to me on, given I’ve answered your questions:

• A source for the claim that the CDC said vaccines were ‘unavoidably unsafe’.

• Response to the evidence that vitamin A deficiency in measles can be caused or exacerbated by the virus

• Response to the ‘so what’ questions about vitamin A.

• Response to further reading of the Danish epilepsy study about their four identified mechanisms

• Reaponse to broader evidence that complex febrile seizures are a possible predictor if future epilepsy, not a cause of them.

• Evidence that mortality in the 18/19 flu pandemic and the 21st century Ebola epidemic in West Africa only occurred in those with underlying health problems

• A comment on whether you feel people with undiagnosed or untreated health conditions deserve to die of preventable diseases, or whether you think they are acceptable collateral damage

• Peer reviewed studies Koehnler is using to support the claims in his book

Many thanks.

Some schools in Australia do this. It’s isnt onerous, they just ask for a gp letter in addition to birth certificate for registration purposes (mind you their healthcare professionals keep proper records which makes it easier). It has increased vaccination rates in areas where it has been implemented and has given parents of immunocompromised/allergic to vaccine children peace of mind and the children a safe learning environment. Parents who don’t agree can home school or privately educate (although this would be a problem in UK where as in Australia there are lots of very affordable private education options). In theory it’s an excellent idea but it may be practically challenging in the UK due to the way state services operate.

Would also like to point out that vaccination programs are a left wing thing. Insisting on mandatory vaccination would be far left. Right wing politics are characterised by a small state/minimum interference with personal rights/economy while the left is characterised by a large state and economic/social engineering

@Cath lol

Would also like to point out that vaccination programs are a left wing thing.

Malcolm Turnbull, that renowned lefty.

This is what I believe in a nutshell: ‘disease is a consequence of certain stress factors such as drugs, malnutrition, pesticides and heavy metals’
And I would add psychological and physiological stress to that list too.

So there’s no such thing as contagious disease then?

Fantastic - in one bound we’re free of the pathogenic mass killers of the human race!

This is what I believe in a nutshell: ‘disease is a consequence of certain stress factors such as drugs, malnutrition, pesticides and heavy metals’
And I would add psychological and physiological stress to that list too.

On what evidence do you base that belief?

What factors do you think were present that led to the Black Death that were absent ten years either side? The plague outbreak of 1665? Why did Spanish flu have equal mortality rates in countries that had not been involved in WW1 as in populations that have? I’m fascinated.

You aren’t going to bother to answer those other questions then? That’s fairly rude, when others have answered yours in good faith.

gregory mandatory vacations aren't a hard left thing or states in the US would never have set them up, the US isn't hard left wing and never has been.
There is also no need to limit the vaccination to state schools, again my state requires the same of all dc in private schools as well.

No Cath, that wasn’t my question. Try again?

If you think you can manage to respond without using really dated and offensive words like retarded and moronic, and calling people idiots, that’d be fab.

🙄Oxford English Dictionary definition:
retard
VERB

[WITH OBJECT]
Pronunciation /rɪˈtɑːd/
Delay or hold back in terms of progress or development.
‘our progress was retarded by unforeseen difficulties’

I think we both know you’re being disingenuous and that the dictionary usage you’ve just cited makes less sense in your sentence than the offensive colloquial usage. We can only judge your intent by your posts here - given you’ve also used ‘moronic’ and called a poster an idiot, the most likely meaning is clear.

However - any answers to actual questions? Here’s are two really specific ones - why was the mortality rate from the 1919 influenza pandemic so much higher in Tahiti and Samoa than it was in France or Britain, which had both suffered more due to the war with psychological and physical stressors, pollution, poor availability of food, etc?

Why was a similar pandemic not seen in Central Europe in 1945, after comparably much higher stressors?