To think perhaps schools should insist on vaccinations.

[Lovestonap]

Good animal boarding kennels etc will not take animals without their vaccinations up to date.
Should our schools be able to insist on a completed course of childhood vaccinations (up to age appropriate) before giving a space at a school? Obviously children who are unable to be vaccinated would have a medical exemption certificate. I think this would be a good idea, but then I'm wondering if this is a nanny state too far thing. Probably implications for human rights I haven't considered.

That's all fine but skip 50 years and the anti vaxxers are right about something, or one of the vaccines does X then what?

I'm all for vaccines but at some stage one will do something negative to one or more kids. It's just how life is.

YANBU. It should be a requirements it is in lots of other places.

Unfortunately doing this in state schools would merely result in some unvaxed kids being homeschooled by their (mostly stupid and crazy) parents.

That said, if a private school wanted to ban anyone who did not vaccinate for NON-MEDICAL reasons, I would have no problem with that.

"I think it works well in Australia."

So do I

Because their system does not/not include barring any children, vaxxed or not, from the compulsory yearss of education

Instead, the parents (the ones making the decisions) lose entitlement to most/all family benefits. Unless they have a valid medical exemption, or proof they are following an approved 'catch up' schedule.

I believe children have a right to an education.

You have to provide a vaccination certificate for the compulsory childhood vaccines before you can sign your child up to a state-funded nursery or school in France (and often for sporting activities as well).

It works well for the vaccines that are compulsory. Unfortunately MMR is not among them.

I should add that homeschooling is much more closely supervised in France too so you can't simply opt out of having your child vaccinated AND educated.

It’s a requirement in France also. It takes two minutes to show the vaccine certificate when you register a child for school and the registration is done at the mairie anyway. Since last year 12 vaccines are compulsory and it is about time this became standard everywhere.

It's done where I am. And those who refuse often end up homeschooling. And rightly so!

Australia withhold benefits I believe.... and the Australian PM's spouse is a very senior member of a very prominent pharmaceutical company. Seems a bit dodgy if you ask me?

I was watching something on the telly last night about vax rates in UK

They pretty much recovered post-Wakefield, but have been falling again in the last 4 years,

I think unpicking why the generation who had DC in that time are going against all medical advice and doing something quite risky for their DC (because as the herd weakens, the chance of their DC getting one of the diseases rises because they o ck into circulation)

When there was the Wales outbreak, people queued to get vaccinations they had previously turned down. I fear it might take another outbreak to remind people how serious this is.

There are always some measles cases in UK, usually very small clusters of cases (not taking hold into a bigger outbreak because if the number of immune people - it's why for example measles used o crop very few years, as it only took hold as more DC were born and there was a cohort who hadn't had it. We may well now have enough non-immune people to let it take hold, and the 1000 cases in UK last year is enough to be a real concern that one of those clusters, especially if one occurs in a densely populated area, will op into a big outbreak

"Australia withhold benefits I believe.... and the Australian PM's spouse is a very senior member of a very prominent pharmaceutical company. Seems a bit dodgy if you ask me"

Why on earth would it be dodgy, when the policy has existed for a couple of decades, and had not been changed one iota under this govt?

Oh wow, I'm really surprised by the responses on here, I thought you'd get flamed for this but I am really pleased so many people think this.
I read on a post elsewhere once that schools ban nuts because they are harmful to others but in vaccinated children can go in fine, that's a good point imo.
However, although I am 100% for vaccinations, it does make me feel a little uneasy the thought of not having a say in your own child's health. But then maybe that's because I don't have a child who can't be vaccinated so my kids are safe?

They may ask for the records but it doesn’t mean it’s compulsory. I assumed it was but it isn’t

*un vaccinated children that should read!

I would completely support this.

Where I grew up you can't get child into state nursery and school without basic vaccinations. And even most private ones refuse.
Basic vaccinations are mandatory (MMR, TB, hexa vaccine) and ppl have to go through court if they don't want to vaccinate.
Still can't believe that I moved to what is apparently MUCH more developed country and saw measels outbreaks.
And people say the country I am from is behind 🙄

Yep, that would be a great idea. As long as children who couldn't receive vaccinations for a valid medical reason were allowed to attend too - they need to benefit from herd immunity. I'd fully support this. I despair at the anti vax 'movement' and the pseudo science that goes along with it.

@sequinafortune I am fairly confident that medical exemptions are allowed to school in every country which requires vaccinations to attend. It would be the most ridiculous thing to punish a child for medical condition

YANBU. Schools have a duty of care to all children and unvaccinated children pose a risk. However, I’d be interested to know who these unvaccinated children are. They could be from chaotic homes where parents can’t get their act together, in which case being pushed out of education could be devestating for them.

100% agree. Unless the child is medically exempt of course. It keeps everyone safe that way. I don't get why people want the U.K. to turn into a 3rd world country full of measles and polio. Very strange.

Just because you read 3 online articles and a mum blog on anti vax doesn't mean you should sacrifice your kids Brenda and not take doctors (and scientists!) advice.😁

If most children are vaccinated, there is no need for compulsory vaccines because unvaccinated children are protected by everyone else. The percentage required can be calculated for each disease depending on how catching it is and the incubation period.
If vaccination rates drop below this threshold, there is a strong argument to make it compulsory to prevent outbreaks - however this is likely to cause an outcry that may increase the strength of the anti vaxx movement.
In the UK, most unvaccinated children are not offspring of parents with strong views on vaccination, rather they are in deprived areas where parents are apathetic and can't be bothered to take the child to the clinic. Therefore strategies such as offering home visits for vaccine administration are probably enough to get the rates up without causing a lot of fuss.
Ultimately though, I would support compulsion if required to reduce outbreaks, purely because I don't see why parents should be able to put their children at risk on a whim. It's normal to have questions and concerns about any medical procedure and vaccines can occasionally have (nearly always minor) side effects. But the benefits of vaccination for a healthy child far far outweigh the risks, so parents taking an antivaxx stance are doing so because they are ignorant. They do not understand the basic science or history of these diseases. Their opinions don't need to be respected any more than a parent who believes car seats are bad for babies and therefore refuse to use one.

How far do you go though with what vaccinations are compulsory? Many children don't have the flu vaccine each year because of religious reasons or allergies. Would they not be allowed in school then?

Relieved that I've not been flamed, and thanks for your thoughtful responses.
I'm not generally an advocate of compulsory anything (I have strong views against the holiday in term time fines for example), but this situation of increasing infection just seems ridiculous. I did wonder if doing this might cause more parent to 'home educate', and I put this in inverted commas not because I am against the concept - I'm not- but because it is not subject to particularly rigid scrutiny in this country - and there is a chance that children of ignorant people might fall through the considerable gaps.
I think I wouldn't make it compulsory across the board as the final say for the children's medical care should stay with parents, but as a pp pointed out, if you want to run with the herd and enjoy their benefits (I.e state funded education /benefits) you should play by the rules.

In practice I can't see it would be a huge effort, and certainly the onus wouldn't be on teaching staff to check. When having their final preschool jab (age around 4/5) a certificate to be produced by health care provider and attached to application form. (or of course, a certificate of exemption).

I thought I'd ask for others' views because it scares me sometimes that my views are getting increasingly right-wing and judgmental - and that's not how I see myself at all.
I'm late 30s and I remember getting whooping cough because there was a similar worry/rumours about the vaccine back then and my mum didn't get it for me. I was very poorly and my mum still hasn't quite recovered from the guilt bless her. So I don't have strongly held views about the morals of anti vaxxers, I think they're just parents trying to do the best for their kids and have been exposed to poor quality information and education. I think it's incumbent on our government to run more public health campaigns being clear about how deadly measles is.

Waffle waffle waffle. Thanks for your thoughts anyway :)

I thought I'd ask for others' views because it scares me sometimes that my views are getting increasingly right-wing and judgmental - and that's not how I see myself at all

To be pro-vax and anti-stupidity is not a right/left matter. Nor is being judgemental.

Crunchymum let’s assume that pharmaceutical companies are trying to make money even if it kills people and that the Australian government is enabling them, which do you think would make more money, the free polio vaccine or a polio epidemic? When DCs get whooping cough, measles, dyptheria, etc. who do you think profits from their drug treatments, hospitalization, urgent care and lifelong medical complications? Presumably the pharma companies that supply all their drugs, equipment, etc, so they would benefit most from anti-vaccination programmers.