To think that moaning about how little money you have..

[clairemcnam]

when you are in an office with a couple of staff, and you are earning at least 7 times their salary, is incredibly insensitive?

yet when I and others have looked at the average prices where they are and CHALLENGED them on their assertions they either disappear or give the online version of stuttered ineffective excuses!

Exactly. I have friends who are on way, way less than 30k and live in London, they manage just fine because they live within their means and always have done. My delightful mother on the other hand has never been able to accept she can't live a champagne lifestyle on shandy money, got in stupendous debt and we had most of our stuff repossessed when I was a kid.she still even now, though they are on high income, makes statements about how "we just don't have the pennies" but they bloody spend it on expensive stuff so they do have the money, they just can't live a simple lifestyle. I had another friend who would moan they just didn't have the money, they were so skint, but when stating their expenditures there were crazy unnecessary things they spent their money on that they chose to do, not that they had to do. Yanbu op.

"It's your choice to be a lower paid subordinate"

How does that even work in your mind. Do you think everyone in the NHS could be at the top? Every teacher a head? Everyone a chief exec? There tend to be less jobs available at the top don't there?

"It's your choice to be a lower paid subordinate"

This is a bit of a harsh comment.
It is not always a choice. What if you are returning to the work place after raising your children or you have been made redundant?
Sometimes you have to take any job that will pay the bills. Not everyone gets to do a job they want or like and it is not always easy to get another job.

Whisky is being ridiculous. I’d like to hear who they think would staff the shops, drive the buses, treat the sick in hospitals, produce the food we buy etc if everyone made the choice not to be a “low paid subordinate”. I don’t think they realise that people at the top are only there because of the workers that keep the system churning

Claire. I don’t disagree that it’s insensitive not to consider your audience in that situation. However, I do believe that salaries can be relative and we don’t always know the extent of someone’s home circumstances, they could be supporting elderly parents or relatives who need a helping hand, they might be trying to downsize but are unable to sell their property, they could be locked into a mortgage that’s gone through the roof etc.

What is interesting though is that so many people think it’s OK to point the finger and say ‘tough, they made those financial choices and if they can’t budget properly that’s their bad luck’. If someone said that about anyone at the other end of the scale, who makes poor financial decisions eg doesn’t pay their rent and is evicted or prioritises cigarettes and alcohol over putting a decent, healthy meal on the table that’s OK because, you know, they don’t know any better and they’re entitled to some ‘luxuries’. 🤔

What does your colleague say when you explain the reality of your situation to them?

Dorset making total sense.
So glad someone else gets the 'it's all relative' viewpoint.

I'm sure some people may look at a 1K take home and think that is a lot of money.
Maybe someone on UC or someone in a part time role who can't find more hours, perhaps someone on similar with small children who might think that 1K pm is a lot just for a couple.

On that wage per month with a disability and in a couple, is there some benefit help? Therefore it isn't actually 1K but perhaps more if you include rent help, UC, disability benefits etc.
(Don't shoot me down, I'm not sure what the benefit guidelines are).

They probably can't understand why someone on that wage would complain.....

See- it's all relative.

I still agree that it's not nice to flaunt money or talk about it.

I have said on this thread already that I don't get any benefits. Why assume that everyone on a low wage gets benefits?
If you no longer have kids under 18, benefit entitlement is pretty high. I would have been entitled to DLA lower rate under old system, but nothing under PIP.
We are paying mortgage, and bills like everyone else.

The its all relative is bullshit. Until last year we were topping up an elderly relatives care with our own money for example. You think only well off people have elderly relatives or other unfortunate things they have to spend money on?

But it would also be insensitive for someone in steady (albeit low paid) work with an averageish income to complain to someone on UC that they were skint.

Someone earning £100k should have the emotional sensitivity to not moan to someone earning £20k. And someone earning £20k should equally not moan to someone on UC.

The fact is that a salary of £100k is very high, regardless of where in the country you live. That isn't relative - it's a fact.

I live up north so my housing costs are cheaper than they would be for a Londoner (although houses in nice areas near good jobs and schools often cost as much as in the south east). But many things are the same price or more expensive up here. Travel costs more. Clothes, food and bills etc. cost the same. £20k doesn't magically transform into a fortune up here.

And I do find many well off people have an unrealistic idea of when benefits kick in. Benefits are more generous if you have kids under 18. After that point benefits are absolute bare minimum. So for a couple, you do not get tax credits unless you earn less than £18k. And you have to be actively looking to increase your hours. A couple both on minimum wage full time jobs earn more than that.

You think only well off people have elderly relatives or other unfortunate things they have to spend money on?

It's like when people complain about the cost of staying in a high paid job. The travel costs, buying work clothes, childcare.... as if people in low paid jobs don't have those costs as well!!

Definitely insensitive

OP- i didn't assume you're on benefits, I asked the question and said I was unsure of the threshold.

Also, your 'theory of relativity' is so contradictory.

You say you pay for elderly parents. So your 1K for example has to stretch.
Therefore someone earning £750 (for example) but with no parental costs- may wonder why you think your own wage is so low? Where in fact you may have much higher outgoings and therefore feel worse off!

See- it's all relative.

But the OP isn't moaning to someone earning less than her, is she?

That's the point.

I didn't say that she was, I agreed that no one should be insensitive or moan.

My comments were more about people's perceptions in general of whether a wage is big or small.

And your example would be more realistic is you were talking about salaries of £1k and £7k (as the whinger the OP is talking about earns seven times the salary).

No its not all relative. Yes there are people with less money than me, I am well aware of that.
But we all have to live somewhere, eat, heat our homes, travel to work, etc.
Someone on less money simply would not have been able to top up an elderly relatives care so they got decent care. They would have to have accepted their relative getting substandard care.
If you have money you can make choices that those on less money can not.
So someone well off can choose to buy a house in an area with a low crime rate. Someone poorer may not have that choice.

Comparing £1k and £750 is relative. Comparing £1k and £7k - it's not fucking relative.

£7k is a huge monthly wage no matter what you choose to spend it on.

We has already discussed the 6K to 1K difference, I was explains with a different example.

OP- I didn't ever disagree that people should have these kind of conversations in the workplace. It's insensitive and crass.

I stand by the face that everyone will have different perceptions of whether a wage is large or small, dependent on their own wage, outgoings, upbringing etc etc.

*explaining

remodelling

You are obviously having a bad day, or his subject is close to the bone for you.

I didn't swear at you so no need for the aggression. I hope you get your issues sorted.

All im saying is that perceptions are not what counts here. Statistics show pretty clearly what average wages are, and anyone earning 7 times that amount but considering themselves hard up needs to give their head a wobble. Regardless of their circumstances.

I find the "its all relative" brigade tend to high earners, trying to convince themselves they are not as well off as they actually are.

For example if you buy a massive house, then yes you will have to hire a cleaner and gardener as it becomes too big to look after yourself. If you have a pool, you will probably be paying for someone to come in regularly and clean your pool. Plus your maintenance costs and bills will be much higher. So you can look at this and say, because I have such a large house I am way poorer than someone in a small house who does not have all these outgoings. Ignoring the fact that it is a bloody choice.

And no, I would not moan about being skint to someone who earned £130 a month, amount someone would have to earn to make my wage 7x theirs.

Eve Of course people have different perceptions of what is a small or large wage. A multi billionaire may think £200k a year is a low wage. But of course they would be wrong. That is why we have statistics.