Death announcements in the paper - who was BU?

[GraceMarks]

Sorry for a slightly morbid topic, but I recently had an experience where the mother of a friend of mine died unexpectedly and she and her sisters had to suddenly sort out all the various arrangements for the funeral and notifying banks, utility providers, etc etc. It was a very stressful time with an awful lot to think about.

A couple of weeks later, I was talking to my own mum and she happened to mention that she had been "looking out for the death announcement" in the local paper, but hadn't seen one and wondered if my friend knew that this was something that people are supposed to do. I asked my mum why she actually needed to see a death announcement at all, given that she already knew that my friend's mother had died, and surely anyone who is particularly interested or who knows the person who has died would have found out through friends, family etc. She got a bit huffy then and muttered something about tradition and etiquette. She seemed to be implying that my friend had made a kind of faux-pas by not announcing her mum's death, on top of all the other things she had to sort out.

Is this really something people still do, or is my mum being hopelessly old-fashioned? Just wondering what the norm is where other people come from!

There was a post on here not so long ago where someone from Ireland was complaining that their cousin didn't go to their Fathers funeral. Her Cousin obviously didn't fit into her beliefs of Irish cultural norms. Lots of people were indicating they were from Ireland and saying it was fine and not everyone was expected to go. So I do believe, unlike some people on here that Ireland is made up of lots of different people with opinions of their own and can make their own decisions if they want to. Ireland might have a website for funerals, but so does other Countries. Someone said they announce deaths on local radio as it that is confirmation that everyone in Ireland does the same thing. There is a shipping forecast in the UK, but not everyone listens to it!!!! I really don't mind people saying what they think or believe the culture is where they live, but they can't make it out to be absolute fact or talk for everyone in a Country.

I live in a Jewish, Muslim, Hindu etc area which is also 62% BME so I never make any assumptions about deaths - we have had all sorts case over people wanting to burn the bodies outside, issues over who gets priority if one religion wants them in the ground ASAP. I certainly know it varies. We tend in our famly to go for burial and try to do it within a week - C of E, RC).

As for who gets the food after, laughing as I type as I bet none of the dead could care less.... my father had a slightly weird aunt who used to go to all local funerals in the hope she might be invited back to eat the food after. She often did get invited back. When my parents died we asked everyone who had come to the service if they wanted to come back to the house and we had loads of spare food actually so it was no problem at all to share it out at a wake.

My mother's only instruction was she did not want anyone to wear black and to try not to be sad.

Yes we did for both my parents , always been the done thing to speak where we live .But where we live the local paper is delivered daily still and a lot of people do still read it .

But the Irish posters are stating absolute cultural norms. There is very much a standard way of doing funerals in Ireland, with only small variations (wake at home or not, removal to church the night before or morning of funeral, tea and sandwiches at home vs reception in hotel etc). But they are small differences.

And if too many people show up, we stand outside. I stood outside a funeral parlour while heavily pregnant this time last year to pay tribute to a young man who had died tragically. The funeral parlour streamed the service online, so many who were standing outside were watching on their phones. Obviously, I didn't need to be catered for, I went home after the service.

Tansplainers gonna keep on tansplaining.

But the Irish posters are stating absolute cultural norms. There is very much a standard way of doing funerals in Ireland, with only small variations

Yes but this Tabby character doesn't approve so we must change at once.

My DGM and all of her friends/family do this. She does look in the deaths and births page to see if anyone she used to know has died. It’s not an obscene thing the upper class do, it was a very traditional thing to do in their era.

Yes this is what lots of elderly people do in England as well. Ordinary working class elderly people.
It was lovely that the hairdresser that my gran had went to for years came to her funeral. And no we would never have thought of contacting her to let her know.

Tansplainers gonna keep on tansplaining.

'But I don't want an invitation-only funeral!'
'Well, you're WRONG!'

I think it's weird that your mum was huffy about it. After my mum died we contacted everyone in her addressbook. After the funeral my grieving dad got a phone call one day and got shouted at by a cousin that he wasn't contacted. According to my aunt there was no contact between them since childhood (so 45 years or more) and he wasn't on her christmas card list (which included people from eons ago). We were flabbergasted that he felt so entitled.

First of all Grace no I don’t profess to know what the norms are in England amd sorry that this thread has gone in a different direction to the OP.

Secondly Tabby one family member not attending a funeral in no way negates what you’ve been told on here.

And you don’t seem to understand what cultural norms are. Here’s a definition ...

They are the shared expectations and rules that guide behavior of people within social groups.

Those living in the culture/sociologists are best placed to say what those norms are. This is all based on observable behaviour, it’s not about opinion. There are strong cultural expectations in Ireland around death. Not everyone adheres to them 100% but the known and understood expectations are as follows.

The vast, vast majority of deaths are announced across a number of medium, local newspapers, radio, rip.ie, social media. People (particularly of a certain age) pay attention to them.

The vast, vast majority of funerals are open to whoever would like to come. A good ‘turnout’ is viewed as positive. However it’s not obligatory for family to come by any means.

There is no expectation that you check with the family before attending. If you did this, it may even be interpreted as you having bad blood with the deceased because why else would you need to ask permission?

The catering arrangements, as discussed upthread, are very flexible to accommodate the fact that you won’t know numbers. Venues know this and can adjust. People will use their judgement and will bow out quickly if it’s been under catered.

If you don’t want an ‘open’ funeral you could have a private one. These are very rare. I have heard of 1 in my lifetime and I’m 38.

I suspect that what’s going on is that you think it’s polite to check with the family first (fine) and can’t understand why others, in another culture, don’t apply your norms (not fine).

It’s how it’s done here, it works for this society, I can’t see anyone particularly interested in changing it —and definitely not because some Brit thinks we should—

Strike through fail

It's gone in a pretty unpleasant direction, tbh. I didn't start the thread expecting to be compared with the Black and Tans, but here we all are. Anyway, I think it's pretty clear that some people do put in death announcements and some people don't, and it seems to be more of an expectation amongst older people and those living in smaller, more closely-knit communities. That was all I was asking!

I have been to a funeral with a private family only bit first, then open and catering after was open.
All others were open.
I would know if my DP died everyone who might be interested in coming to the funeral. I wouldn't with my mum. I know all her best friends. But she is chatty. Maybe there is a woman she talks to every day at the bus stop who would like to come to her funeral? I wouldn't have a clue.
And funerals are not only about those closest to the person. Sometimes people touch you in unexpected ways. So when I worked in a community centre this lonely man used to come in very regularly usually on pretext of asking for advice, but he really just wanted a chat. I always if I had time made him a cup of tea and chatted to him for a bit. He did this for about 7 years and I really missed him when he died. His adult kids would not have had a clue that I even existed.
Unless your parents have been housebound for many years, they may have regular interactions with people that you know nothing about.

I didn't start the thread expecting to be compared with the Black and Tans,

I really don’t think any of those comments were directed at you Grace. At all.

I’m sorry you’ve been upset by them.

The only true closed funeral I heard of was organised by a pretty strange couple who are actually part of my family. They are pretty paranoid about people, have no friends at all and don't seem to like anyone except their nuclear family. So the closed funeral for a parent was really just part of their lifestyle of pretending the outside world does not exist.

Here in Ireland they announce the passing of people on a radio station and also we have a website called rip.ie which gives details of funeral, removals etc and it's very helpful.

There is also a book of condolence that you can write in on the site, which is given to the family.

My comments were in no way intended for you Grace, and I don't think anyone else's were either.

Ah, I see someone has already posted about Ireland.

How did the black n tans come into it!

I feel quite sad for the OP that this has gone this way, she has asked from her point of view in the UK whether something was unreasonable and she has asked this of all MNers

Irish, or part Irish MNers including myself have shared their experience with regard to death notices in their culture. There is nothing wrong with this.

What is wrong is that somebody has hijacked the OPs thread to make it solely about the differences between the two cultural approaches and how the other way is INHERENTLY wrong

And so this thread has become another examine of how Irish people and Ireland get derided, looked down on or bashed on the forum. There was a whole thread about this issue not long ago.

But this is NOT the OPs AIBU and nothing to do with her and people need to stop derailing and merailing HER thread

Tansplaining - a British person explaining Irish history, culture or politics to an Irish person whilst telling them they are wrong

Hey, it's all relevant to the OP in a way, I didn't specify that I was from the UK so I can't really complain if people offer their cultural norms. Indeed, I wasn't complaining about that, it was just the descent into a bunfight that bothered me.

TabbyMumz in the nicest possible way, someone saying what the "cultural norm" is, isn't saying that ALL people from that culture will or even should do that thing. I could say "In the UK, it is the norm that people wear clothes" and I assume you wouldn't come back and say "Ah, but some people are naturists, so you are wrong, and anyway, wearing clothes is stupid and people shouldn't do it".

I wonder whatever happened to that naked rambler that was in the news a few years ago!

Probably still in prison! He seemed to spend most of his time either locked up or waiting to be locked up.