That we can afford the chicken!?

[hungryfordinner]

So I've had an argument with my husband and really need some independent perspective.

We are a family of three - me, husband and toddler

• we own our house outright (paid off last summer)!
• we both earn good salaries- after childcare we have about £5k per month to go towards living and saving. We each get £500 to cover tube transport / mobile / personal expenses, so £4000 is free. We are saving for an overseas home and our child's future. There is plenty in savings if we need it.

And yet- today I realised we had no meat in the fridge aside from some sausages, no vegetables apart from tomatoes; and we only get groceries on a Sunday. Not fancying sausages, I bought some chicken breasts in Sainsbury's for £6, and came home and made dinner for the three of us, using the tomatoes and pasta we already had.

I thought that my husband would be pleased I had dinner ready (Wednesday is my day off; he has Fridays off and never has dinner ready for me when I get home).

Well, he has come home and kicked off big time about me buying the chicken. Apparently we need to make what's in the fridge last a whole week, even if it means pesto pasta or tinned meals. And we shouldn't be eating so much meat.

We spend max £40 on food / nappies (his rule) per week and honestly it's driving me crazy. Yes- some people do this and manage fine. I get this. It's not impossible but it's not fun.

But AIBU to think that since we are in such a fortunate financial position, we can splash out on a bit of mid-week chicken? Why the need to control our existence in such a shitty way?

Wait - while I'm at it- a cleaner. I always said to him I want a cleaner when I am back at work. Our time together is too valuable to waste time cleaning. But nope. Instead I spent at least an hour of my day off cleaning skid marks that his disgusting mate had left in our family bathroom last night, scrubbing the rest of that bathroom down, vacuuming and mopping the ground floor, and doing laundry.

All while trying to entertain a toddler or get him to nap (bloody hard work).

On Saturdays we both do a full clean of the house, either while the child sleeps or if he won't sleep,!we take turns cleaning / entertaining child.

I'm sick of living such a miserly existence when we can well and truly afford to live a little!

So based on the information the OP has given Doingit you feel you can diagnose him with all those conditions? Clearly you have some superpowers that us mere mortals don't possess. And obviously a trained therapist would not be as clever as you and be easily manipulated.
Not everyone jumps to such wild accusations and diagnoses. Not everyone projects their own feelings or experiences onto others.
Some of us are actually interested in what is going on for someone we love. Some of us want to understand in order to change - not accept - the behaviour.

Apologies for weird paragraph beginning "Meanwile.." my computer (always blame that!) is being awkward!
Please - have a bag packed for you and your son, ready to leave suddenly.
thanks

This is chilling.

Please stay safe OP. If he realises you are suddenly seeing him for what he is, he could turn nasty.

Some minor transgression?

Is he your headteacher?

You need help @hungryfordinner to empower you to see what this vile man is doing to you AND will do to your child

Please don't have another child with him

He is a nasty narcissist and a bully

Get out now and take your child with you

Imo you are in danger

@hungryfordinner you obviously have a lot of things to think about and to plan. No one on this thread feels anything other than hope for you and your son to be safe and well, both physically and emotionally. I have no idea if you have a support network of friends around who can help you but I’m assuming not as I think if you had you would have been out of this situation a long time ago. Facing all of this alone is overwhelming and if you need someone who can help you in any way at all please get in touch. My email is [email protected] I’m willing to pick you up and drive you wherever you want to go or to help with whatever practical help you need. I’m sure there will be many others on here who will gladly offer the same kind of support. Let us know where you are and we will build a village for you.

TwistedAnkle.
DointItForTheKids. recognises the red flags of all the abuses which are seen in the conditions she has mentioned. She is right, she is experienced.
You show dangerous ignorance when you try to crush her and tell the OP to talk about his feelings about money etc.

You are clearly totally unaware of coercive control which is now a crime in the UK. You do not recognise the signs or the signs of a person so bullied that she cannot see how unreasonable her living conditions are until one day he decides to be angry at her for giving him a lovely meal and then he punishes her with a fine from her measly allowance.

I put ''Coercive Control'' into Google and these are some quotations:
"Over time many victims feel like they cannot ‘think straight'’. ''People’s lives are ruined by coercive control"
''Experiencing coercive control is like being taken hostage; the victim becomes captive in an unreal world created by the partner/abuser, entrapped in a world of confusion, contradiction and fear.''
''Fear and confusion are central to our understanding of coercive control; it is living in a world of moving goal-posts, shifting sand; it is like constantly walking on eggshells. It is a world of everyday terror.

... the victim becomes brainwashed, internalising the rules, adapting her behaviour to survive Coercive control is the white noise against which she plays out her life; ever present, ever threatening. The strength to live with this and to function daily in a range of settings – to survive – is enormous and courageous.''

Very sorry I thought I saved the websites but can't find them I will post them when I can.

Gina2012. Yes!
After reading TwistedAnkle, i was so relived to see someone who recognised the situation and had written so clearly!! Good for you!
I'm not ignoring the enormous number of other people who write so clearly and are so perceptive - I admire you all! I seem to talk too much.

Oh my god OP, I just RTFT.

On your next day off you need to see a family law solicitor and get information about your rights.

I can't imagine how you must feel. He is absolutely controlling and abusive. It's hard to see it when you're in it, and it's grown slowly over time.

Talk to him if you want, try to save your marriage if you want, but please make a confidential appointment with a family lawyer and learn where you would stand if you decided you needed to walk away. That knowledge will empower you to demand what your deserve in the relationship.

Fuck him, using the environment to emotionally blackmail you into surrendering to his control. What an absolute arsehole.

Just found one of the websites I used (see above)
www.cedarnetwork.org.uk/about/supporting-recovery/what-is-domestic-abuse/what-is-coercive-control/

Hungryfordinner
from
www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/reports/news/a31487/what-is-
''10 ways to spot coercive control''

There are many more; the "silent treatment" being one. Not allowing you to talk about what you want to discuss - preventing it by various means like stopping it completely (Saturday evening), interrupting, changing the subject, talking nonsense or giving ridiculous details or "examples" deriding you, etc.

1. Unreasonable demands. Often followed up by threats, pressure or physical restraint if you don't agree to them. We have already had these listed on the thread, but I imagine there are many more. I include the fines, making you buy the extra cat food that you told him was needed.
2. Degradation AKA malicious name–calling, or bullying behaviour. This could include buying clothes that are purposefully too small for you to 'diet' into, or constant belittling behaviour in front of your friends, designed to make you feel worthless.
3. Restricting daily activities. Whether it's your daily jog, or meeting your family. If you feel increasingly unable to carry out your normal routine, it's usually a strong signal for concern. I include not letting you have a Cleaner.
4. Threats or intimidation. If your behaviour isn't to their liking, you are threatened or intimidated into changing it. This can include sex too. Fear of intimidation is as bad. Why did you pay the fines? What did you actually fear would happen if you refused? What would happen if you stood up to him and said "You are not my Boss."
5. Financial control. Can include constant monitoring of your spending, or giving you an 'allowance' to live off (usually when it's your own money they're controlling).
6. Monitoring of time. Stalking your movements, unwanted contacted, or being controlling about how you spend your time is a form of coercive control.
7. Taking your phone away. Or changing passwords to your iPad or laptop so you can't use them. This could include any form of restricting access to communication, information or services.
8. The same goes for restricted mobility. If you're unable to leave the house, or use your car because they won't allow it. If your partner's behaviour isolates you from friends, family or colleagues, then it's important to seek help. He was angry you stayed for end of week/Friday drinks.
9. Deprivation of food. Constantly – and purposefully – taking your food away, or limiting your allowance is controlling, abusive behaviour. Seek help.
10. Destruction of possessions. Whether it's something valuable, or emails or text messages. There are many more; the "silent treatment" being one. Not allowing you to talk about what you want to discuss - preventing it by various means like stopping it completely (Saturday evening), interrupting, changing the subject, talking nonsense or giving ridiculous details or "examples" deriding you, etc.

PLEASE take note of number 5 and, especially number 9. The "seek help" was on the webpage.

SilverBirchTree. I love you!

@niceneen

Although that is a very kind gesture, I would not advise anyone to meet a random person off the internet.

However well meant your intentions, I don't think you should be offering this, for your own safety as well as their's.

longtimelurkerhelen Very wise advice to
niceneen
Perhaps she can take some very strong people with her, meet somewhere public, weigh up the situation? It is an extremely kind gesture from a very big heart.

The OP appears to come from another country so I would guess that her family might be living abroad and the thread suggests it's a long-haul distance away. Her tormenter has got her ready-isolated in that sense therefore. I would like her to go to someone near her, even a Women's shelter, but that might be just too much for her.

The advice to go to a Solicitor SilverBirchTree is perfect! Essential.
I must go, I have been unable to stop worrying since I woke up.

As a single mum on a minimum wage I can only dream of ever having even a fraction what you have op, But what I do have is the freedom to spend MY money on one of the small joys in life-delicious and healthy -most of the time- food. The fact that I have no man telling me,a fucking grown woman, what I can do and can't do makes me far richer than you . For God's sake stick up for yourself, for the sake of your probably vitamin deficient child if not for yourself!

OP like most people who have responded in this thread, I only have your best interest at heart. I just don't believe in armchair psychology and diagnosis. I also think mn hysteria and extreme reactions and advice are not always helpful. You have only shown us one aspect of his character. Only you know what your relationship is truly like and how he makes you feel generally. So only you can decide if a more balanced or extreme view and action is warranted. I would advise you look at your relationship as a whole and decide if you need to leave or work with your husband to make it better

did u read the above points twisted-its coersive control and is now illegal-you dont h ave conselling with an abuser

There's been some great advice on here OP and I really hope that you find a happier life for you and your son.

It will be tough for you but well worth it for you both - but something in your situation has to change and it doesn't sound like it's going to be your OH.

As someone else pointed out, growing children aren't cheap - can you trust this man not to transfer these behaviours to your child?

OP how are you today? I'm quite concerned I'm completely in charge of our household finances after my idiot husband got himslef into extreme debt. I am not as strict with DH as your H is with you I would never dream of fining him etc your posts are a bit of a shocking read I hope you and your DS are OK

May I just say how glad I am that no one is responding to the GF mumtothreegirlies? (also known as mum to three future Handmaidens...)

*hungryfordinner8
Are you OK?
I am getting worried.

Also although it would be great to think if you showed this thread to him he would get the message, I would counsel you not to tell him you are getting support here. He will not want you to be getting all this support. Keep it for yourself.

Let us know as soon as you can how you are. Thanks.

Hope you're ok OP.

When did the fines come in? its a very bizarre way to act.

TwistedAnkle
You are wrong when you say: "You have only shown us one aspect" etc.
From the OP and her further posts, we have been given examples of various kinds if unreasonable coercive abusive behaviour. We have been told the OP's reaction. We know the OP wanted to talk to him last night but he found a "misdemeanour" and then would not talk, so he prevented her carrying out her wishes. He is ruling her to an extent she is unaware, she has become so used to it. The financial abuse involves so much coercion and mental cruelty.

I take objection to your remark:
"I also think mn hysteria and extreme reactions and advice"
There is no hysteria here. Just a number of people with experience who can see a woman being abused. A woman who may quite possibly be in danger.

I noticed your use of extreme descriptive words in your reply before last. Such ways of expressing views, especially in writing, show arrogance and ignorance.

Actually we don't know if 'he found a misdemeanour' or 'refused to talk' and 'prevented' her from carrying out the talk she wanted to. This is all your interpretation. What the OP actually said was that they had argued about a minor transgression (no mention of whose or who found it) and they weren't talking.
It's these interpretations like yours that can escalate situations and the subsequent advice given.

I think my points have been balanced. Your assumptions that you know exactly what's going on in OPs relationship, that she may be in danger and that your interpretations of what has actually been said is the only true reality is what I'd call arrogant and ignorant.

TwistedAnkle
You see? Listen to yourself. You are the one jumping to conclusions!

You're the one stating ''Your assumptions that you know exactly what is going on". I have never made such "assumptions" and I have never said that. It's you who infers the wrong ideas about what a person has said and then attacks and maligns them for what you erroneously attribute to them!
I have made no ''assumptions''. I have said what the actual instances of behaviour she has described constitute when enforced regularly. I have attempted to give her as much information as possible in the event that she may need to realise that her situation is more serious than she thinks. As have many, many other observant respondents, who are people with a lot of experience and knowledge. We are only responding to what the OP has reported to us.
You are the one with the assumptions! I make sure that I speak about the facts with accuracy. Do not put words in my mouth or misreport what I say.

I do not think this is helping the O.P.
I shall not engage in your game forthwith.