To seethe at articles like this - 'I didn't know who my friends were until I was a mother'

[Likethewind321]

This one specifically:

www.mother.ly/love/motherhood-helped-me-understand-what-real-friendship-is?fbclid=IwAR1DgYhJay05k6JEZ7s4i6blGZ3wwycCsbJhZFWB8rMf3KSq8aXR_ROXSYI

I wonder what happens to all those 'silly frivolous friends who only cared about going out and having fun' Those friends who were shallow, who never really 'got it' ?

I'll tell you! One of two things. 95% of them will all have kids too, just maybe a few months or years later. And when they do, they will then also transform into wonderful human beings who 'get it'. They may not hang out with their old friends but they will become the newfound besties of whichever mums they meet in clinic or playgroup.

And the other 5%? They won't have children, and will silently watch as their friends all turn away and step into the social world of toddler groups, playdates, birthday parties, mummy chat groups, mummy coffee dates and mummy nights out. Watch as they make new friends, friends who 'get it'. This 5% will be dismissed as having never been a 'real friend' in the first place.

And can they complain about it? No. Because if they do they will be thought of as bitter or envious. A bit lonely and sad. They will probably be pitied.

Well guess what. I think it's being childless in a world where motherhood is worshiped, to find out who your friends REALLY are.

It is a shame such a load of rubbish is getting so much traffic.

Some people do drop you like a hot potato once you have children. And I don’t mean “they still go out drinking until 2am when I can’t any more how unfair!”, I mean they actively drop you from everything.

One friend I’d been close to for years and years dropped almost all forms of contact, didn’t reply to me for months, then suggested eventually we meet for lunch and spent the whole time redirecting the conversation to how much she hated children. Well great, thanks for that. Another one has spoken to me maybe twice in three years now, I’ve given up.

I think the poster who said any big life event shows you who your friends are was spot on. I felt this more in the months following the loss of our son at birth - so many people just were flaky, unsupportive, distant, or disappeared. When we did meet (after I put in all the effort to organise a catchup) they would just talk about themselves, and their problems and not have any comfort or empathy left over for me. It showed me who my real friends were, and showed me who I didn't need in my life anymore. Now as a mum I have quite a few friends who are childfree (either at the moment, or long-term as a choice), and I make time for them - but these are mutually (I hope) rewarding friendships. I think going through a big life-changing experience just clarifies who are shallow users in your life and who are worthwhile friends, regardless of whether they share your subsequent experience or not.

@handsprint2018

I've been on mn too long. I was reading your post thinking why is she still friends with cheeky fuckers???

Im childless but have 2 best friends with kids, I consider myself 'very lucky' that I still get included in their lives, as they have made lots of new mummy friends.

I'm soon to be a godmother to one of the babies & accompany my friends to soft play etc where I feel like a right lemon but in return they meet me for coffee or occasionally come out for dinner.

I do feel mentally bruised when I've spent time with them as it hurts that I probably won't have my own child now as I'm 42 with serious mental health illness.

YABU. I’ve managed to maintain most of my pre baby friendships because my friends are decent people who love their friends and support them when their lives are a bit hectic rather than only seeing what they get out of the friendship. Many of those friendships have actually become stronger since having children. It doesn’t take much empathy to cut your new parent friends a bit of slack or to make an effort with their children. Obviously some friendships will drift a bit but friendships that end altogether are usually a result of non-parent friends not getting it and refusing to alter the dynamic of the friendship as a result. The rest of the time it’s becayse new parent friends have become obnoxious or failed to respond to a really bad event in the nonparents life.

I'm child free by choice and have lost so many friendships. My best friend has pretty much dumped me for her NCT friends. I understand they are a huge source of support to her, but I'm also willing to be supportive and to be completely cut off hurts.

I see here that others with children have felt the same. I think there needs to be give and take both sides- with my friends they are happy to take and not give much in return.

It makes me sad but I'm moving on with my life. It's shaken me though as of all the people, I never thought it would be her.

RhymingRabbit i forgot it was cheeky fucker too! It must have read weird.

"Friends" is a big word that covers a huge range from fairly casual aquaintences that you see on a regular basis and can always chat to, but don't see out of the original context, to lifestyle friends who you may see the most of because your lives are currently compatible, to the real soul friends, the ones that you know deeply as a person, that can endure distance and neglect yet when you get in touch it was as though you met yesterday.

The writer of the article is bemoaning the loss of lifestyle friends. The average length of a friendship is apparently 7 years. There is a limit to how many meaningful relationships a human can sustain, I think the cap was about 100? We simply can't maintain a meaningful friendship with every friend that we have from nursery, school, high school, university, each work place and hobbies. As lifestyles change, lifestyle friendships drift and usually that isn't a personal slight. Some soul friends will endure, but they are rarer.

I've reached the school age stage of motherhood. Many of my soul friends are there, lurking in the background getting on in their own bubbles (often mothers to their own children of varying ages). The pregnancy/ baby friends have drifted as work, different school lives, activities etc have taken over. A couple I connected with on a deeper basis, but the group itself has fragmented as a meaningful entity. Some of my most important interractions are now around the school gates. Many of those will have a fixed life. They are shallow in that there isn't a deep, enduring connection, but they are important in being sane from day to day which has its own value.

Writing an article on friendship at 23 will be a very different persective to writing it at 33, 43 or 53 etc.

So here's to friends. The casual and lifestyle ones who fill a need for a few years and the soul friends, reliably in the wings, always there in the background.

I think that if you only find that life has meaning AFTER having children, then your life up until that point must have been pretty sad and pathetic.

Anyone who thinks that way will be in for a BIG SHOCK when their little darling munchkins finally ship out of home in a few years' time

I just think that statement “I didn’t know who my real friends were until...” can be put to a long line of big life events.

Like:

I got divorced
I left my job
I moved away
I was raped
I had a miscarriage
I had a stillborn
I had kids
I got married

Etc

I remember leaving school to be home schooled because of a combination of social and health issues - lost all my “friends”.

I moved 5 hours away for university and had to prioritise my uni and work and lost all my “friends”.

I got divorced and our “friends” chose sides or opted out entirely.

It goes on.

End lesson is - they were never my friends.

I dropped a friend when she had children. I am sure she will see it as because she had children. The truth is I made all the effort before she had kids. After she had kids she would only meet me during a weekday, as weekends were for family. I took some annual leave off to meet one time. And then stopped. I was fed up of being used.

Reading through all the posts, it strikes me how much the feelings of hurt/abandonment/isolation apply to both sides. Maybe the having/not having children is actually a red herring here and the real issue is about how difficult it can be to maintain friendships throughout life and the repercussions of friendships ending?

@SamStephens that is a good summary of how to work out who your real friends are.

I also think real friends aren't always the ones you see every week for coffee, I have a couple of friends who I can go over 6 months without seeing or barely speaking to but would be there in a flash if I needed them... they're the ones I'd go to for support

Maybe it can be hurtful when you don't have children to hear mothers talking about finally knowing the meaning of life and love after having a baby. But... That is genuinely how you feel when you have a baby. The axis of the world changes and the word "love" takes on a whole new meaning. It just doesn't compare to any feelings you had before becoming a mother. Saying this is not meant to be targeted at women without children to make them feel bad, it's just an honest statement about our feelings. We should be free to say how we feel whether we choose to have children or not.

As to friendship a proper friend should be willing to compromise a bit in regards to what kinds of things you do together after one of you has a baby. Just like if one of you moved or changed jobs etc and you might have to adapt your friendship.

That is a statement about your feelings. You don’t speak for every single mother baby.

Talking about finally knowing the meaning if life is a pretty strong statement. What do you think the meaning of life is then?

I didn't say I was. I said how I feel and said each person should be able to say how they feel.

Your last paragraph definitely. I've struggled with TTC for 5 years and have lost a lot of friends in that time and it may be because I'm bitter, but it's hard to hear "I conceived on the first month" or "have you thought about adopting?" ad nauseum.

@clairemcnam maybe would have been clearer to say that it gives life meaning as opposed to meaning of life IYSWIM.

maybe would have been clearer to say that it gives life meaning as opposed to meaning of life IYSWIM.

Life has no meaning before children?

Sure saying it gives your life meaning is fine. Lots of people have different things that give their life meaning. Very very different from saying you now understand the meaning of life.

Articles like that make me laugh. Next: "You don't know what love is until you have children".

Look at the most recent posts female...

For me, having my daughter has given my life meaning. Don't me for saying that, it's a reasonable statement.