To seethe at articles like this - 'I didn't know who my friends were until I was a mother'

[Likethewind321]

This one specifically:

www.mother.ly/love/motherhood-helped-me-understand-what-real-friendship-is?fbclid=IwAR1DgYhJay05k6JEZ7s4i6blGZ3wwycCsbJhZFWB8rMf3KSq8aXR_ROXSYI

I wonder what happens to all those 'silly frivolous friends who only cared about going out and having fun' Those friends who were shallow, who never really 'got it' ?

I'll tell you! One of two things. 95% of them will all have kids too, just maybe a few months or years later. And when they do, they will then also transform into wonderful human beings who 'get it'. They may not hang out with their old friends but they will become the newfound besties of whichever mums they meet in clinic or playgroup.

And the other 5%? They won't have children, and will silently watch as their friends all turn away and step into the social world of toddler groups, playdates, birthday parties, mummy chat groups, mummy coffee dates and mummy nights out. Watch as they make new friends, friends who 'get it'. This 5% will be dismissed as having never been a 'real friend' in the first place.

And can they complain about it? No. Because if they do they will be thought of as bitter or envious. A bit lonely and sad. They will probably be pitied.

Well guess what. I think it's being childless in a world where motherhood is worshiped, to find out who your friends REALLY are.

Come on. Older women aren’t valued is the reality mothers or not is irrelevant trust me. As a mother your status falls through the sodding floor anyway. There is more that unites us then divides us ignore silly shit stirring articles like this.

I don't have any kids yet, though quite a lot of my friends do.

My husband and I don't do wild nights of socialising very often. Two weekends ago we went out on the Friday, and I attended a lunchtime get together of friends entirely hungover and afraid of throwing up on the baby, not knowing what to say to the toddler (I don't struggle for baby talk to our cats for some reason!), and because I haven't 'been there' not really appreciated in the chat of the pregnant woman either.

My husband and I even talked about having kids because we're 'ready' in all the other ways, and socialising is very limited these days - they're all in with the kids! But that's not what we want yet. We're mostly homebodies, spending the weekend on trips, DIY, lie ins etc, and go out out about twice a month. But it IS isolating to be the only ones in the social group NOT at the baby stage.

I don't think YABU but I do think it works both ways. There are some friends who I have drifted from since I had my DS but it's unfair to put the blame on me. I haven't cast them aside for new mum friends however I can't socialise with them like I used to - weekends away, boozy nights out, expensive midweek catch ups over dinner after work, weekend brunches in trendy (and totally pram/baby unfriendly cafes) etc are out for me at the moment.

Conversely, they all work so can't meet up for coffee during the day (which is pretty much the only socialising I do right now!) and tend to have fun weekend plans that aren't suitable for a baby. I don't bend over backwards to try and fit in with their plans but neither do they make a particular effort to accommodate the fact that I have a baby now. No offers to pop round to mine after work (even though they have been invited), no effort at all to be honest past the first 1 or 2 obligatory visits.

My new social world at the moment is as you say in your first post - toddler groups, mum group chats etc. Not because I've chosen to 'turn away' but out of absolute necessity. If not for these groups, I would see no-one except my DP when he comes home from work. I would have no one to text in tears at 4am when I'm up yet again with my terrible sleeper. People who totally understand when plans are cancelled last minute, or abandoned halfway through due to a baby in meltdown, plans that revolve around whether there are stairs or enough space for the pram or somewhere to warm up a bottle.

It's not about outgrowing my old friends. It's about surviving in my new, upside down, at times totally unmanageable life.

Well I certainly refuse to be demeaned because i chose to continue a pregnancy. Having a baby was thee most proudest moment of my life when the gas and air wore off😂 Other women's could be university degrees, passing their tests etc. It's important to have some form of self pride!! I'm a bit bored of myself at times currently but when I'm back at work, that'll change too. But I agree we should celebrate each other's achievements and differences. No matter what they are.

Also the 'it takes becoming a Mum to understand the true meaning of life / love / kindness / sacrifice / maturity / responsibility'. I have a child
Uugh. I have a child and this se time t makes me want to vomit all over his PJ Mask toys.
I remember my Dad telling me how my opinions would change once I had a child - as in I'd be less Liberal minded once it was my child's future at risk. Yeah, no. The delivery of a small human from the emergency hatch didn't suddenly change my underlying principals and beliefs

@hollygoloudly1. You have summed it up perfectly.

I think a 23 year old who has a baby while her friends are all out having fun/travelling/building careers will genuinely lose friends, and will also have to tell herself something to make her feel better about that.

Obviously it would be different in a community where everyone has children at that age, and is different again at 30 when it seems everyone is having children and suddenly it is something to be desired rather than avoided.

At every age being out of step with what your peer group are doing is difficult, especially if that group is quite homogenous.

I forgot to say, the biggest arseholes I know all have children, and it hasn't improved them in any way!

Well I certainly refuse to be demeaned because i chose to continue a pregnancy eh @Samind? Is that in reply to anything in particular?

Well I certainly refuse to be demeaned because i chose to continue a pregnancy.

Who is demeaning you?

When mstswift stated that your status falls through the floor when you become a mother. Mines hasn't. It's probably how I view myself that has changed.

I agree to a point.

The shallow friends tend to stay shallow even throughout motherhood in some cases, it is only when the shit really hits the fan (death of parents, serious illness) do they tend to mature and understand much more.

Then they may wish they hadn't traded in their old and trusted friends for the fair weather types at the play group.

As a mother I don’t feel my status had fallen through the floor. I have two human beings in the world who absolutely worship me, think I am the fount of all knowledge and hilarious! And I’ll take that, cos everything is is secondary, though I still have a job and a wife...and friends.

YABVU the crux of the article is that her 'friends' stopped calling her and inviting her places.

I do think it's unfair to "seethe at articles like this". I had children in my mid twenties and I have lost friends. I haven't made any new "mum friends" yet either. One of the few things that's comforted me when a particular friend who used to be close completely abandoned me IS the slew of articles like this, not that I go round reading them all, but so I know that it's a phenomenon that lots of other mothers go through. And just because I didn't want to go galavanting across the country leaving my 8-week-old ebf baby behind for a girls weekend doesn't make me a bad person who deserves to be ditched...

The articles exist because new mothers do experience loss of friendship, from friends who promised to "be there", but then look for the first evidence that you've ~changed~ through motherhood to dump you. And that's painful.

I do think it's unfair for you to slag off an article that another woman has written about her specific experiences, just because it's not your experience. Like I said, write your own article. Or Google "article childless women friendship" or something, I'm sure there are some articles from that perspective. People are allowed to talk about their own experiences. It's not a competition of who has it worse.

She sounds self-centred. All about what her friends do for her- little about what she does for her friends. No wonder so many abandoned her
Its just a very silly article- her life changed and she couldn't do the things she used to meet friends to do. That doesn't make those old friends shallow or immature, they just didnt change their lives to fit hers.
In any case, when you're a mum life sometimes feels restricted to being a mum but it's not everything (IMO it shouldn't be everything). Maybe she should occasionally try to do somethings she used to like doing, instead of being so judgemental!

YANBU but I would point it out from the other side as well - I lost 2 friends after having my DS1, because they were not interested in children.
i was happy to see them still, happy to try to continue friendships (and I have managed it with OTHER child-free friends) but these 2 just didn't want to deal with it. Maybe they just weren't that good friends to start with, who knows - but I still have several other child-free friends who have been fine.

Personally I would never discard a friend because their lifestyle choice was different from mine - but I would probably lose touch with them if they stopped trying to communicate with me and used my children as an excuse.

The trouble is, Softplant and other who think the OP is unreasonable, is that childless women are told that we ‘don’t know the meaning of true love’, ‘you don’t really understand life until you have children’, etc etc. Articles such as this tell us we don’t know true friendship either. It’s a wonder some of us bother getting up in the morning - 80% of the world seems to view us as mere husks of people.

I gave a friend who is trying so hard to concieve and she is tormented by "well meaning" people who say when's it your turn and are you gonna have any at all. They don't know her circumstances either and neither they should. It's not their business. So I told her just be as outrageous as you can when answering and they'll stop. I understand the pressure of society. I don't think less of anyone that doesn't want them. I WAS one of those people. But at the same time if my daughter told me she didn't want children, I'd genuinely understand. Never allow anyone to make you feel you have to justify yourself or see less of yourself. DP and I are engaged but don't have the money to arrange any type of wedding etc but people keep asking when we are. I always say never or we're running away just to annoy them 😂😂

Yep! I agree completely. As a mid-twenties happily childfree woman, I'm already seeing these stupid posts on FB from my friends with kids. I'm (not) sorry I don't want to "get it". I don't want kids. I don't want to have coffee at the soft play. And I especially don't want to listen to the "but you'll change your mind!! Wait till you experience the joy of motherhood like me!!" That's not my life. And until they accept that, I'm gonna keep doing my own thing.

YAVVVU for sharing and getting caught up in another piece of drivel that serves only to pit women against each other based on their lifestyles choices.

FFS are we not over the "my life is shitter cos i had kids" "my life is shitter cos i didn't have kids". Embrace the life you have, surround yourself with people who care and ditch the shits. Surely that's universal.

I hate this epidemic of self-indulgent mummy-guff.
The blogosphere must have more shit written by women who think they've reinvented the wheel because they've had a baby than any other topic.

Love for your children is different. It's really unconditional. But who gets to decide what is true love?
I had deeper friendships with friends before kids, but also before marriage. Because I had more time. I miss that.

I also don't want to have coffee at soft play.
I have new friends. But the best ones are ones that don't revolve around specific things (like kids or hobbies) but just because we get along.

Shallow and selfish people will always be that way. It's just if we change (new job, partner, baby, breakup, miscarriage) we grow less tolerant to the bullshit. Or if they change and grow more selfish and shallow (insert many reasons), we grow less tolerant.

I have cf friends who i adore spending time with. They love my dc and see them but god do we enjoy our time too. I make time for them and them me. Its mutual. I have a one cf and a couple of parent friends that i rarely see and don't make an effort with. Why? Because their friendship was very one sided and not mutual and when my tolerance dropped (after miscarriage and unemployment mainly). Their friendship was conditional in that i supported them but they offered me little or nothing.

I think as you get older, you lose tolerance for bullshit and you realise why bother with those who bring you little but stress? Although some posts i see, i feel for people who haven't hit that point yet with rubbish friends and family. It's hard and horrible to get too sometimes when you think you were close but ultimately so freeing.

I didn't read the article as it didn't interest me. The debate here more so