To seethe at articles like this - 'I didn't know who my friends were until I was a mother'

[Likethewind321]

This one specifically:

www.mother.ly/love/motherhood-helped-me-understand-what-real-friendship-is?fbclid=IwAR1DgYhJay05k6JEZ7s4i6blGZ3wwycCsbJhZFWB8rMf3KSq8aXR_ROXSYI

I wonder what happens to all those 'silly frivolous friends who only cared about going out and having fun' Those friends who were shallow, who never really 'got it' ?

I'll tell you! One of two things. 95% of them will all have kids too, just maybe a few months or years later. And when they do, they will then also transform into wonderful human beings who 'get it'. They may not hang out with their old friends but they will become the newfound besties of whichever mums they meet in clinic or playgroup.

And the other 5%? They won't have children, and will silently watch as their friends all turn away and step into the social world of toddler groups, playdates, birthday parties, mummy chat groups, mummy coffee dates and mummy nights out. Watch as they make new friends, friends who 'get it'. This 5% will be dismissed as having never been a 'real friend' in the first place.

And can they complain about it? No. Because if they do they will be thought of as bitter or envious. A bit lonely and sad. They will probably be pitied.

Well guess what. I think it's being childless in a world where motherhood is worshiped, to find out who your friends REALLY are.

GoldenBear Your life experiences sound very different to mine. So not surprising we have different outlooks

I don't doubt that, owing to the profound love that we are evolved to feel towards our tiny offspring, it probably is true that after becoming a parent, one's outlook on many things, friendship included (and as I've heard a lot, the very concept of love) shifts dramatically enough for us to think, wow, I never knew what this really was until now.

But it does make me sad nonetheless, when people say things like this, as having children may never happen for us, and it won't happen the natural way for sure. So perspectives like this, while I can sort of follow them, leave me feeling somewhat unworthy.

Wow, many commas 🙃

They irritate me too, I knew who my good friends were before I had children and they are still all my friends. Some of them are still childfree, some had children before me and some since. I naturally don't see as much as some of them as I used to but they are still my good friends. Some local ones I see loads more as now I work part time I can see them during the day too (those also part time or shift workers).

I realise this isn't everyone's experience though and I really feel for those who do lose friends they thought were close.

The only thing I can say to people is you are in control of how you respond to such situations. Never allow anyone including society as a whole to make you feel less than or refundant/invalid for not having children regardless of the reason. It doesn't make you a failure or bad person/citizen but I am proud of the newest aspect of my identity and I won't be made to feel bad for it either. Each to their own.

Here here samind 👍

I am proud of the newest aspect of my identity and I won't be made to feel bad for it either. Each to their own

I couldn’t agree with this more.

I don't know... I think it has more to do with where you are in life and how you perceive yourself. I had my first very young and if I'd shifted my view of friendships like what OP criticises in that article, I'd have been left with no one! All my friends were childless for a long long time..
More importantly my friends are friends because they're nice interesting people, regardless of them being parents or not. Motherhood shouldn't define every aspect of life. I'd throw myself into a fire for my kids but I've always looked at the world through the perspective of me being me- same for my friends.

I suspect some posters on here are just looking to jump in with snide remarks at the first opportunity.

At the end of the day, as I said earlier, being a parent is like any other life changing event, it will impact the way you view and experience the world, and why shouldn’t parents talk about that?

Why are other people’s experiences and feelings so offensive to people?

Every mum on here thinks her children are the most awesome children ever, and she loves them more than anyone has ever loved anyone else. And they are all 100% right, because that’s how they feel. How does that affect anybody else ?
It doesn’t.

Beautifully put Samind

I have one friend who had a baby and it was like all of a sudden she would never have to compromise again. Flat out telling me that she would do soft play and coffee but didn’t want to go out for dinner or drinks anymore! As in ever! It came from nowhere too I was absolutely puzzled it wasn’t like oh I’m finding it hard or I need time it was my life has changed you need to fit in with it or bugger off! She hadn’t even had her baby at that point! Although I think it is more down to the individual. If they were selfish to begin with they will use motherhood as an excuse but others who aren’t all about themselves seem to manage to make an effort back. I don’t ask for a lot. I’m happy to do the kiddie things, babysit, soft plays etc but once in a while it’d be nice for it to be reciprocated.

The vitriol thrown at parents on threads like this astounds me.

It's a parenting site ffs. The clue's in the name.

@Leighhalfpennysthigh I have expressly said otherwise more than once. You're inferring something that just isn't there.

@MirriVan to me the urge for a man to have an affair literally could not be more different than the urge for a woman to have a baby and then dedicate her existence to nurturing it. Men do sometimes use that as an excuse to "sow their wild oats" but the twk aren't comparable. I havebt said anything about the purity of love. Although it is a different, often previously unexperienced, love. I think due to a baby's utter helplessness and dependence on you.

At the end of the day, as I said earlier, being a parent is like any other life changing event, it will impact the way you view and experience the world, and why shouldn’t parents talk about that?

I do get this. Of course it does. Just as infertility/involuntary childless is also a profoundly altering experience and changes the way you view and experience the world, it does seem like a motherhood and baby obsessed world.

I am made slightly uncomfortable when women have to censor themselves and their experiences due to other people’s issues.

Yeah, I agree. Mother's should just STFU. We should stop acknowledging them in society

Or maybe we could just you know, listen to each other and our different experiences? And maybe use some sensitivity? In all directions?

This threat STARTED with an attack on a women for talking about how becoming a mother changed her life Claire

Similar to another poster, I had a friend who survived cancer. She said it gave her life a new meaning which she felt you couldn't understand unless you had been faced with death.

I wasn't offended in the slightest and agree with her. It didn't mean my life had any less meaning, just that she found new meaning in hers.

This comes up time and time again on Mumsnet. People are allowed to express their opinions and experiences. Except of course when it comes to having children.

ILoveBray slightly different though isn't it? No one wants cancer.

Lots of people want a child but can't and so it's obvious hearing others talk about how you don't understand love or the meaning of life until you do, will hurt said people.

candy It is a very superficial and trite article that shows the author does not understand the nature of different kinds of friendships. If it was about how becoming a mother changed her life, fine. But it was not. It is about how becoming a mother meant she lost the type of friends that she did things with.

SerenDippitty

it does seem like a motherhood and baby obsessed world.

Is it possible you feel this way because of your personal circumstances.

I sometimes feel like the world is obsessed with women working and having careers, which is probably because I left my career for a few years to raise my children.

Our personal circumstances and sensitivities colour our view on things, but it doesn't make everyone else wrong or insensitive.

I am rapidly approaching 30 and somehow all of my friends that were, simply aren’t anymore.
It’s not that I think they’re bad friends or they’re not good people to be around, it’s more that our lives have seperated since I got married and had children. My friends that were are all of a similar age and none of them quite understand the demands of small children. So we have drifted apart.
What really really does hurt however is my two oldest, best friends. We are all the same age, went to the same schools, have always been friends. The second I moved out of my parents house, they stopped inviting me to stuff - silly get togethers, nights out. When I got married this became being excluded from holidays in favour of my sibling who was still living at home - incidentally just like them.
Then I fell pregnant. They were “so excited” about the baby, talked about taking him/her out for walks, maybe even all of us going on holiday together like we used to. There was a lot of chats about how they would be sure to ask me on nights out, how we were guaranteed to be best friends again.
My son was born. “Oh it’s not a girl.” From one friend. Dead silence from the other.
Since then they have dropped me. It’s like I’m contagious or something. I kept ringing them, inviting them over, asking them to the kids birthday parties, asking them on nights out, suggesting x,y,z for us to all do together, inviting them on holiday, only for at the last moment they’d ring because they got a better offer or even just not turn up. Slowly over the past year I’ve stopped inviting them or asking them and guess what? All the effort was on my side, zilch from them. So I now don’t contact them at all and I feel much better for it! Means I’m not getting rejected every week.
However I have found a core group of girls I love who all have kids and who are all good friends. They understand soft play, they get the night feedings and guess what? Those are the girls I’ve invited to my birthday party.
So yes, in many ways the article is really wrong simply because drifting apart is not a bad friendship, but in many ways it’s 100% correct. There are some friendships that cannot deal with children and outside of those friendships is where you can find some true friends.

It was a white article then Claire...and then followed a thread about how smug/self absorbed mother's are, how they are terribly friends/people, have no personalities, don't understand anything about life and about how mother-centric society is. This is a parenting website.

Toffee I am so sorry to hear that.
What jumps out though is that these friends dropped you before you had your baby. Yes they made promises that things would change when you had your baby, and they didn't. But they had already dropped you.