NDN wants to use our driveway for building work - AIBU?

[NigellaAwesome]

Having quickly checked that the thread titled 'Twat Next Door' wasn't about us, I hoped to get hive mind views on our neighbour.

This might be long, but I don't want to drip-feed. For background, we have lived next to them for about 10 years. She's OK, but he is a complete knob. We call him Gobby Gordon. We've had a few issues over the years. The first was when one of their young relatives threw stones at our car repeatedly and caused substantial damage. When I told the wife what had happened, she was very apologetic and said she would pay. The dealer quoted £800 to repair, but I got a contact to do it at knockdown price for £120 + vat. However when I went round a couple of weeks later to let her know how much it would be, the husband arrived round later ranting and raving and threw a cheque at us for £120 but giving off severely. We were a bit about it, especially since he drove a Maserati and I doubt he would have appreciated the same being done to his car. That somewhat set the tone, but we have pretty much ignored each other over the years, with a couple of exceptions.

Our driveway is between the two houses, and beyond our fence they have about a metre passageway before their gable wall. A number of years ago I arrived home to find a workman on ladders in our driveway doing work on their chimney. They hadn't let us know, and I was shocked to find him there because we have electric gates and he must have climbed over the gates / fence to get in. I almost knocked him off the ladder because I was reversing in and only saw him at the last minute. When I asked what he was doing on my property he was really abusive. He refused to leave, and police were called and I think there was some sort of warning given. Gobby Gordon gave off to my DH about it afterwards, calling us crap neighbours. When we pointed out that he hadn't had the courtesy to ask us beforehand, he said that the workman had rung our doorbell but there had been no answer (no shit Sherlock, we were out).

A few months later I saw the wife and we had a chat. She was ok, and I explained that whilst we were happy in principle with access being given, it needed to be by prior arrangement, and with one of them - not a random builder, talking to us beforehand. This has been the case since for the last few years, and we have provided access on about 3 occasions since then. The wife has always called with us, provided details of the builder, and everything has been fine with minimal disruption.

Last week we were out and we got a call from the gates (gates connect to our phone when they are called). It was a builder asking to get onto our property to look at doing some work. We were out, had no idea what he was talking about, and said it wasn't really convenient. We didn't hear anything more.

This evening we were out again, and got a call from the gates. It was a builder asking if he could speak with us. We were out, but coming back in 15 minutes, so I said if he could hang on we would chat with him. When we got back home, he was waiting for us. He knew our names, and knew a lot about us including what we do for a living (which I'm not very happy about).

The builder said he wanted access to our driveway to build scaffolding on it to rebuild the neighbour's chimney. I was pretty pissed off that I was having this conversation directly with him, and that neither of the neighbours had spoken to us about it. When I told him this, he said that he had never even met the wife, only Gobby Gordon. He told Gordon last week that he needed to speak to us about access, but Gordon hasn't bothered his arse.

When I asked about what needed to be done, he said it would be scaffolded for 7 to 10 days (so realistically likely to be 3 weeks). Our driveway will be out of action for that time, and we have 2 cars that can't be parked outside on the busy road. I'm not thrilled at the prospect of bricks being brought up and down scaffolding which could land on our driveway, our pets, or our children. I'm going through quite a stressful time in work at the moment, and I also have professional exams coming up, so really could do without 3 weeks of building work. There's more, which would be a bit outing, but it was clear from what the builder said that Gobby Gordon had discussed a lot of private information about us - information that we didn't even know that Gordon knew, so that has really, really pissed me off. The builder also laid it on really thick that he had travelled a very long way to discuss this with us. The conversation ended with me telling the builder that I was sorry for his inconvenience, but this was an issue for the neighbours to speak to us directly about, not him, and the neighbours knew the score before they sent him round to discuss it with us. DH feels a bit sorry for the builder, but I just think this is Gobby Gordon being a cheeky fucker and sending the builder round to lay it on thick rather than having the manners to speak to us directly.

This is more a WWYD rather than AIBU. MN WWYD & AIBU re CF NDN?

Boring - I didn't ask for a list. I asked for a proposal of the works in writing. I honestly think it is a reasonable thing to ask for. Any time I have had building work done, the builder has supplied this beforehand. What astounds me most is that NDN thought that he could just send the builder round the night before, tell us he would be scaffolding on our drive, and expect us to be fine with that with no prior discussion. I've always discussed any proposed work with neighbours if it is likely to affect them, well before work starts.

DH & I have had several civil conversations with the builder. During the last one he said he wished he hadn't taken the job as the NDN (i.e. GG) is difficult to deal with. That honestly is no surprise to me, but I didn't make any comment. He played horrible hard ball with the elderly couple who sold to him and pissed them about at the last minute.

Anyway, those who disagree are entitled to their opinions. I've found all the different views and practical advice on the thread really useful, and it's just a matter of waiting it out until it's finished and hoping there is no damage and they clear up the mess.

What astounds me most is that NDN thought that he could just send the builder round the night before, tell us he would be scaffolding on our drive, and expect us to be fine with that with no prior discussion.

Yes, exactly. Anyone who finds the NDN reasonable and/or the OP awkward or petty needs to have a word with themselves, quite seriously.

It's either total BS or utter stupidity that anyone would allow someone to work from their property however they liked even if it could result in damage or someone could get hurt in the course of the work. Laughable, really.

Boring As the OP isn't having work done, and isn't paying the builder, why should she care about being reasonable to the builder? If her property is damaged, she'll be after him via his insurance anyway. Fgs, talk about women being conditioned to be nice to men.

Yes none of this will equal a good result for OP. It's work which has no benefit to her. Only detriment

I'm coming a bit late to this but I've noticed that a number of people in this thread have claimed that you have a legal right to go onto somebody else's land if you need to repair your own property.

This simply isn't true and this advice seems to come from some dodgy landlord website which is misquoting the actual law.

As the OP has already correctly stated, you can't just walk onto somebody else's property and start your erection (!), you need to get a court order from the County Court. The relevant law is:-

Access to Neighbouring Land Act 1992

There are certain circumstances where this order will be granted and other circumstances where it won't be granted. In this case I would suggest that even if GG had've applied for an order it would probably have been refused as there is a part of the Act which says that if it causes the other party any unreasonable hardship or interference then it won't be granted.

If the OP would have been unable to use her driveway and there is nowhere else to keep the cars then I would suggest that the order would not have been made:-

(3)The court shall not make an access order in any case where it is satisfied that, were it to make such an order—
(a)the respondent or any other person would suffer interference with, or disturbance of, his use or enjoyment of the servient land, or
(b)the respondent, or any other person (whether of full age or capacity or not) in occupation of the whole or any part of the servient land, would suffer hardship,to such a degree by reason of the entry (notwithstanding any requirement of this Act or any term or condition that may be imposed under it) that it would be unreasonable to make the order.

The Act then goes on to say that if an order is made then there are all sorts of things that the person asking for the order has to comply with.

So, the practical upshot of all this is, firstly, be wary of getting advice from dodgy landlord websites and, secondly, yes you can get an order for this, but it is likely to be really expensive to comply with all the conditions and so you really should only consider this as an absolute last resort.

ScaryTeacher
Fgs, talk about women being conditioned to be nice to men.

Wow, talk about a patronising and rude comment. 🙄

I haven't been conditioned to be nice to men. I've had years working in a job where I had to deal with disputes between nieghbours -
If I was the OP I would have seen if I could get the builder onside and tried to get him to do the work as quickly and carefully as possible. It be irritating that the neighbour would be getting his way but I couldn't be arsed getting into a whole big drama with the neighbour over something that could be over and done with in a few days. Obviously if the builder wouldn't play ball then I'd have to change my plan.
Have a look at the gardenlaw website and see how many of the more experienced contributors suggest doing everything possible NOT to fall out with arsey neighbours even if it means letting the arsey neighbours get their way.

Boring If you weren't employing the builder and had no intention whatsoever of allowing any access to your property without the proposal in writing and then funds deposited as per the OPs request, why would you be reasonable to the builder?

If the OP isn't paying the builder, she has no leverage with him anyway, so he could promise all sorts and not make good on the promises as she wasn't the one settling the bill.

I didn't let my arsey neighbour get his way, and lo and behold, the need for me to move my oil tank and dismantle my shed vanished; his roofer managed to scaffold over both.

Sometimes no is a complete sentence, and more women need to say it more often. The more arsey (CF) people are allowed to get away with it, the more th st behaviour is encouraged and rewarded. Treat them like toddlers who have to learn that the world doesn't revolve around them.

Your post sounds as if the OP should be bowing and scraping to the builder....why should she? The CF and the builder wanted a favour from her, not the other way around. As for letting arsey people have their own way, hell no.

ScaryTeacher
Your post sounds as if the OP should be bowing and scraping to the builder.

Not sure how you could possibly have thought that. I didn't say anything that suggests that at all.

i dont understand your point BoringPerson.
so, you worked on neighbour disputes and say that arsey neigbours should get their way. what a world would that be?
and according to that, bully children should get their way in school, too? i dont see any difference.
and there is no need for OP to take the builder on her side. there is no need for such things. he is there to do his job, if he does anything wrong he has to subsidize it accordingly.

I must be a dreadful neighbour : it didn't even cross my mind to offer my downstairs neighbour's (large house split horizontally) workmen tea when they were replacing our neighbour's flat roof

Why would I?

I did however let them use electricity from our shed, when they rang my front door to ask, as our neighbour had forgotten she had to pop out just before they arrived.

But we get on well with our neighbours and they had warned us that they were going to get this work done. In the same way that we warn them in advance if we are getting work done that might affect them.

bluebell34567.

I can see you don’t understand my point. Although I don’t think it was difficult to understand. Put simply I think there are some circumstances where it’s easier to go along with an arsey nieghbours wishes rather than fight for your rights. Neighbour disputes can be awful for all involved. They can drag on for years and cause all sorts of problems.

The school bully comment is just plain silly.

I've just arrived back from work. As I walked to my front door part of their roof collapsed right beside me!

I heard a tinkle of rubble coming through the scaffolding, then a god almighty crash. It's a lower roof at first floor level. I think a board might have given way and fallen on the roof, but the roof is badly damaged.

All I can say is that I am very very glad that 1. The scaffolding is not on my driveway and 2. I insisted on having netting installed around it.

I don't think NDN heard it as I haven't heard anyone coming out to investigate, and tbh I don't really want to get involved by telling them.

Whispers Karma

OP I'm not purposely trying to pick fault in everything, but your neighbours roof literally just fell in and all you can think about is how happy you are that it hasn't in any way inconvenienced you?

How would it have helped if op's car our property had been damaged

Yep Pinkyy.

There is nothing that could be done about it tonight, it's dry, and I really don't want to get involved.

If I go round to tell them that it happened as I walked past, I can foresee accusations that I somehow caused it.

I'm also quite shaken by it. If I hadn't insisted on those safety measures there is every possibility I could have been injured.

No wonder you are shaken . It’s fortunate that no one was hurt - I assume that no one was on the scaffolding at 7pm in the dark.

No, no one there. My first thought was that our cat had somehow climbed up the scaffolding, but she has been locked inside since this started (she's not happy), and she was asleep inside.

Wow. You were so right to take this seriously. What a shock. And I also whisper 'karma'.

I'm hiding this thread. I'm disgusted for so many reasons.

all you can think about is how happy you are that it hasn't in any way inconvenienced you?
What? Where are you getting this from? She's relieved her property hasn't been damaged and grateful she insisted on netting, which prevented injury to her. Literally everyone in the entire universe and beyond, except for you, would be happy they weren't injured when a roof collapsed next to them. (Also having a roof land on you is not an "inconvenience" unless you're the Hulk.) What a weird interpretation of her words.

I reckon Pinkyy might be my neighbour who thought it was ok for her builder to erect scaffolding without warning that meant we could access our house at all. She thought we were totally unreasonable to object to my husband being trapped in and me and my son being trapped out for several weeks. It was also erected on a highway with no licence.

Pinkyy . I'll make you a cup of if you stay on the thread.