NDN wants to use our driveway for building work - AIBU?

[NigellaAwesome]

Having quickly checked that the thread titled 'Twat Next Door' wasn't about us, I hoped to get hive mind views on our neighbour.

This might be long, but I don't want to drip-feed. For background, we have lived next to them for about 10 years. She's OK, but he is a complete knob. We call him Gobby Gordon. We've had a few issues over the years. The first was when one of their young relatives threw stones at our car repeatedly and caused substantial damage. When I told the wife what had happened, she was very apologetic and said she would pay. The dealer quoted £800 to repair, but I got a contact to do it at knockdown price for £120 + vat. However when I went round a couple of weeks later to let her know how much it would be, the husband arrived round later ranting and raving and threw a cheque at us for £120 but giving off severely. We were a bit about it, especially since he drove a Maserati and I doubt he would have appreciated the same being done to his car. That somewhat set the tone, but we have pretty much ignored each other over the years, with a couple of exceptions.

Our driveway is between the two houses, and beyond our fence they have about a metre passageway before their gable wall. A number of years ago I arrived home to find a workman on ladders in our driveway doing work on their chimney. They hadn't let us know, and I was shocked to find him there because we have electric gates and he must have climbed over the gates / fence to get in. I almost knocked him off the ladder because I was reversing in and only saw him at the last minute. When I asked what he was doing on my property he was really abusive. He refused to leave, and police were called and I think there was some sort of warning given. Gobby Gordon gave off to my DH about it afterwards, calling us crap neighbours. When we pointed out that he hadn't had the courtesy to ask us beforehand, he said that the workman had rung our doorbell but there had been no answer (no shit Sherlock, we were out).

A few months later I saw the wife and we had a chat. She was ok, and I explained that whilst we were happy in principle with access being given, it needed to be by prior arrangement, and with one of them - not a random builder, talking to us beforehand. This has been the case since for the last few years, and we have provided access on about 3 occasions since then. The wife has always called with us, provided details of the builder, and everything has been fine with minimal disruption.

Last week we were out and we got a call from the gates (gates connect to our phone when they are called). It was a builder asking to get onto our property to look at doing some work. We were out, had no idea what he was talking about, and said it wasn't really convenient. We didn't hear anything more.

This evening we were out again, and got a call from the gates. It was a builder asking if he could speak with us. We were out, but coming back in 15 minutes, so I said if he could hang on we would chat with him. When we got back home, he was waiting for us. He knew our names, and knew a lot about us including what we do for a living (which I'm not very happy about).

The builder said he wanted access to our driveway to build scaffolding on it to rebuild the neighbour's chimney. I was pretty pissed off that I was having this conversation directly with him, and that neither of the neighbours had spoken to us about it. When I told him this, he said that he had never even met the wife, only Gobby Gordon. He told Gordon last week that he needed to speak to us about access, but Gordon hasn't bothered his arse.

When I asked about what needed to be done, he said it would be scaffolded for 7 to 10 days (so realistically likely to be 3 weeks). Our driveway will be out of action for that time, and we have 2 cars that can't be parked outside on the busy road. I'm not thrilled at the prospect of bricks being brought up and down scaffolding which could land on our driveway, our pets, or our children. I'm going through quite a stressful time in work at the moment, and I also have professional exams coming up, so really could do without 3 weeks of building work. There's more, which would be a bit outing, but it was clear from what the builder said that Gobby Gordon had discussed a lot of private information about us - information that we didn't even know that Gordon knew, so that has really, really pissed me off. The builder also laid it on really thick that he had travelled a very long way to discuss this with us. The conversation ended with me telling the builder that I was sorry for his inconvenience, but this was an issue for the neighbours to speak to us directly about, not him, and the neighbours knew the score before they sent him round to discuss it with us. DH feels a bit sorry for the builder, but I just think this is Gobby Gordon being a cheeky fucker and sending the builder round to lay it on thick rather than having the manners to speak to us directly.

This is more a WWYD rather than AIBU. MN WWYD & AIBU re CF NDN?

I personally would not allow this as he has been totally unreasonable with you.
However, if you do go ahead, make sure you write out a contract of terms with him - EG how long the job will take, penalties for each day the job over- runs etc.Make sure it's watertight and have it signed with witnesses. Ensure you both have a copy to ensure he can't say 'but I didn't know!' Make sure you keep the original.

Also, demand to see the builders insurance certificates/policies and photocopy them for yourself, just in case.

And, if you decide to allow it, make sure it's on the contract as to when - dates, times etc. You don't want the builder rocking up at 7.45 on a sunday morning, or working late - to get the job done, now do you.

Plus everything that everyone else has said.

In short, treat it as a business arrangement - for YOUR benefit.

There is no way I would allow this for a neighbour who I didn't get on great with and who couldn't be bothered to ask me himself.
Even if the chimney is in a state of disrepair there must be another way it can be fixed other than encroaching on your land. It just probably costs at least twice as much but I can't see how it would be your reponsibility if anything happened.

Surely if it's letting in water it just needs reflashing where there is a break, why rebuild it?
We've had ours done twice in 18 years, but no rebuilding or taking bricks away. I'm sure a broken one was chased out and replaced but no huge scafolding just a cat/ roof ladder. Took the bloke a day.

The thing is, by rolling over again, it sends the message that the CF can effectively bully you into using your drive.

I think clear words are needed with CF and ask him outright how he would feel if it were the other way around.

Dick.

Will the neighbours still have uae of rheir drive whilst thia is going on? If so tgey should let you park there and fibd alternative parking for themselves.

I second photographing everything before during and after as recently scaffolders from next door chipped chunks out of our brickwork!

Just seen this update -

DH has suggested that we say yes, but arrange for a time that we are away to minimise disruption. I think that is even worse, as I want to be here to supervise, although I do see his point .

No, no, no. no, and thrice no!
ONLY when you are there, and ONLY when it suits you.

Nope. Like someone upthread said, they can take it down from the inside.

OP don't know the answer, but do you know if the works are subject to party wall act? Maybe post on property and diy or legal boards on here. If it is, it means you can hire own surveyor, and proper notice has to be given.

Yes I'd let them do it, it's a pain, but I generally do what I can to ease relationships with neighbours. Life's too short to go to war with them.

They can put the scaffolding on his property and then build a platform on the roof to work from. They only want to use your drive because it's easier.

Sorry if I haven’t understood correctly, but if you’re doing them a favour by allowing the scaffolding up in your property, can you park in their driveway and they park elsewhere?

It would be a categoric no from me. Partly because the CF neighbour didn't even have the decency to ask himself and partly because it will be a massive inconvenience (noise, dirt, unable to park on your own drive etc) which could easily overrun and the neighbour doesn't exactly have a track record of being reasonable to deal with.

Obviously the neighbours in no way deserve for you to be kind and accommodating - they are awful.

However, do you want an escalating neighbour dispute on your hands? Do think through the possible consequences if they get nastier, such as wanting to sell your house down the line. And just general day to day unpleasantness. It's all coming from them but don't cut off your nose to spite your face either. Good luck!

We've had two chimneys taken down - neither required scaffolding. Both were done internally. Each was about a skip's worth of bricks and was unbelievably dusty. That was total removal of chimney breast inside.

I expect there are ways which don't involve scaffolding on your land, but which might cost Gordon in time or effort.

Perhaps if he were to produce a contract stating he would make good your drive, pay you rent, remove the scaffolding in a timely manner etc - oh hang on, fuck that. Why should you let him throw a skip's worth of bricks onto your drive while you park on the road for a month when he can't even be arsed to ask you nicely?

No way would I have their scaffolding putting your drive - what if they damage the drive, your house, car or a person? What insurance do they have? How much compensation are they offering?

The risks are too high

What's your price? Seriously, how much is the inconvenience worth to you - calculate a figure and keep it in your head (and DH's head) ready when the neighbours eventually come and speak with you.

With regards to the parking, are they prepared to park elsewhere for those weeks so that you can park your cars on their drive?

Hell no! CF can do one!
I would also be taking a lot of pics of the works they have done if any risk to falling debris etc, have your proof ready should you need to claim damages

Agree with what PPs have said about just saying no to them, but if you do want to let them do it I think @onlyk has good advice re alternative parking and pictures of your property etc before hand.

I think they need to be making some real effort to be nice to you, polite, and compensate you for any inconvenience... which at the moment they don't seem to be doing.

P.S. Gobby Gordon sounds like an absolute twat.

it is difficult to deny them completely. - who knows when you might need their consent for something in the future. But the way they have gone about it is not good.
ISounds like you need some professional advice on this.
Do you know any builders to look at the situation and give their opinion of any alternative ways to do this work? And also what they advise for safety? Even if you pay them for their time/opinion.
Could you ask a conveyancing solicitor, one who deals with boundary disputes where you stand on this.
The builder has been a bit shirty and agressive too TBH.. complaining to you about the distance he's travelled.. when he's made no appointment. Also commenting on your personal details? It doesn't sound like he's going to be that considerate

IF I were to agree (which I probably wouldn't), I'd stipulate that GG would have to provide alternate safe offroad parking until your drive is again available for use and that he agrees to be liable for any damage to your vehicles whilst parked away. That the scaffolding must be removed entirely and all building related mess cleared away by . I'd make GG agree that if all above conditions aren't met, that GG agrees to pay you £100 per day until conditions are met. And that he agrees to be personally liable up front for any damage caused to your property by the builder and he can then claim from them himself. And I'd get it via a signed legal contract and require an escrow account of £1000 in advance of the project start date.

That'll put him off from ever asking again.

Do they have a driveway?
Your condition for allowing the work to go ahead should be that you get the use of their driveway for the duration and they have to find somewhere else to park.
Why should you have to be inconvenienced by their building work?

Would be a no from me!

So, my options are looking like:

1. Say no. It's their problem to sort out alternative access, no matter what the cost.

1. Say yes and suck it up in the hope that it will improve future relations. (It won't. He's an aggressive CF, and there is never a time when we will need access to their property in the future)

1. Say yes, but with conditions as to timing, duration, alternative parking, measures to reduce impact /damage, e.g. those tube devices.

1. Say yes, but with conditions as above, and also compensation for lack of access.

Am I missing anything? DH is making noises about allowing scaffolding on our property, but access to it must be from their side, i.e. not keeping our gates open for them.

I just feel really, really annoyed that I am having to think this through, to try to foresee details, when it is fuck all to do with me. I should say that if it was our neighbours on the other side I would say yes in a heartbeat, but they would never have put us in this position of not speaking to us beforehand. I cannot emphasise enough how annoyed I am to realise that GG has discussed our private information with the builder.

Given how nice GG is, I wouldn't even consider it without a written contract detailing exact dates the scaffolding will be up, access to your property only for setting up/removing the scaffolding, no materials storage and a prearranged safe parking space for you (and not far away!) for the whole time you wouldn't be able to use your driveway.
Photos of your property before they enter, all damages to be fixed at his cost and penalties for every extra day the scaffolding is up.

DH is making noises about allowing scaffolding on our property, but access to it must be from their side, i.e. not keeping our gates open for them.

Yes, that too.