To object to this form of address in the 21st century?

[clary]

We got a letter from school addressed to Mr and Mrs J Johnson. *

My name is not Jacinda nor Jennifer. My initial is in fact not J. My husband's name however is Jeremy.

Have I, having done something so bourgeois as get married, now lost the right to my first initial?

Our bank manages Mr J Johnson and Mrs C Johnson. Or I would also be fine with a simple Mr and Mrs Johnson. We are the only Mr and Mrs Johnson at this address.

I'm not going to complain to the school. But am I reasonable to be slightly seething?

*All names changed.

I think it's you being in a bubble! It's not something that there are official stats correlated on as far as I'm aware. But news articles and research this decade seem to put it anywhere between 20% and 35%

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29804450

www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/women-change-names-marriage-men-8192

www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/women-change-names-marriage-men-8192

I just found out from one of these that apparently 10% of women us both, which I didn't know before. There was also a Fail link saying it's more common in twentysomething women but I'm not linking to those arsewipes.

It's probably going to go up as well, as the percentage of adult British women from cultural backgrounds where it's not traditional increases.

I will see what my DD's do when the time comes! Thanks for the info and links.

I'm married but didn't change my name. I recently got a letter that referred to me as both Miss Hopeishere and Mrs Hopeishere. I'm going to tell them just to use my first name!

@Uptheapplesandpears
I haven’t seen anyone ‘upset’ about anyone keeping their own name. Just pointing out that keeping your own name or blasting the school for using your husbands initial is
pretty silly when you’re working a full time job, and still doing the lions share of the house work, child care, laundry etc. I took my husbands name and I’m not bothered by the initial. The last name really made no odds and I thought it would be less confusing for our children when we had them. My husband wasn’t bothered either way. But I drew the line when we looked at having children and made it clear we needed to be in this equally. We cover the house and kids equally, and we have joint bank accounts even though I earn less. I literally have not one friend with kids whose husband takes even close to an equal share in running the home/kids. I get comments like; ‘you’re so lucky... xxx never cooks/‘, ‘I wish xxx would do some laundry... he wouldn’t even know how to turn the machine on’. etc etc. But hey, they kept their name and they’ll roll out the equality rant when someone dares to address a letter in a traditional way. @Winterfellwench is right, it is laughable.

I do believe we will reach equality at some point, but while MNers are focusing on an initial on a letter and letting the stuff that really affects their daily lives slide by, the struggle will continue at a snails pace.

@NigellasGuest

Just curious what percentage of women don't change their name on marriage. Anecdotally, i don't know a single one, in my extended family or friends. Ages range from the very old to eat twenties. Could be that I'm in a bubble, or could be that non-namechangers are over represented on here.

This. ^ I don't know a woman irl who has got married and kept her maiden name; that goes for working classes, and the middle and upper classes too. Yet on here, it seems there are multiple dozens of them. In real life, most women want to take the husband's name. For many women it's so that the whole family (including the kids) have the same surname. It's a bit cringeworthy when you go to register your kids for school or the doctors or whatever, and you have a different surname to them.

I know a few women who went double-barrelled, but not ONE who kept their maiden name.

Completely agree with @thewarrenerswife again. ^

I think it’s utterly fucking depressing that people have been defending this for 12 pages.

Your maiden name wasn't "yours" anyway. It was your father's and came from his father so I can't see why it's such an issue to women who are opposed to taking their husband's name. It's just a traditional way of establishing which family everyone comes from whether they are make or female.

Yes it does seem that more than 35% of posters on here are advocating keeping their own name, which is out of kilter with statistics posted by uptheapplesandpears. Perhaps I'm in a bubble but it's a very big bubble, containing people from many walks of life and background.

I know quite a lot who haven't changed their surnames. Those that did aren't opposed to saying they wish they hadn't. Includes me - don't know why i did but was embarrassingly easily controlled and influenced up to my mid 20s (so after I got married). I can distinctly recall considering it, and my soon-to-be husband saying it was my choice not his. Then my mother got sniff of the fact I was planning on keeping my name and manipulated me into it. (I hate my younger self, lacked so much courage.)

The women i know who didn't are Irish and American.Nearly all British women I know have. Anecdotally i find titles hold greater importance in Britain than anywhere else I've lived.

You might not have done warrener, I certainly have. These threads are invariably replete with them and there's a pretty good example just a few posts down from your first.

Also, your argument is a poor one, because it is based on the few people you know and anecdote is not the plural of data. You do not know whether women making these arguments as a cohort are doing the things you mention, much less whether they're doing them any more than women who take their FILs names. I'll see you all your mates and raise you mine, where the opposite is true. And between us, our combined social circles probably cover about 0.0001% of the population, so maybe we just don't any of us assume people we know are representative?

But as I suggested, do feel free to spend the time you're devoting to extrapolating the habits of the few dozen people you know to the general population to doing something more useful for feminism instead. Really, on these threads we get just as many women savaging strawman and inventing laws about name changes as we do women pointing out that this is a patriarchal tradition. So perhaps you could all set us an example, and mobilise to push the struggle further forward.

Your maiden name wasn't "yours" anyway. It was your father's and came from his father so I can't see why it's such an issue to women who are opposed to taking their husband's name.

Oh look, another one with massive double standard who also hasn't RTFT. If the OPs own name wasn't hers, her husband's wasn't his either. She's taking her FIL's name.

Lastly, some of you don't seem to realise that having such a limited social circle you don't know anyone who engages in different naming practices to you isn't a positive thing...

Maybe the name changers and keepers are located in different places Guest and Winterfell. I only know two women who changed name on marriage. One couple (now in their 50’s) chose a completely new family name, the other is my mother. Even DH’s mothers now in her 90’s, kept her own surname name. None of my friends have, nor our children or even the teachers at the local school (or at least the ones who have got married since I have known them).

It's not uniform across the population. Women in their 20s are more likely to keep their own name than older women, so are more educated women, and so also are women from certain ethnic backgrounds. Although some of these contradict each other too, as for example Somali women don't come from a culture where names change at marriage, but they're also less educated than the general population as a whole. You'd additionally have to factor in how some groups are more likely to get married than others. You could have a very high rate of name changing on marriage in one group but if they don't get married much then it makes less of an impact on the stats.

Agree. Archaic beyond

It's a very traditional form of address but personally I wouldn't get too steamed up about it.

I'm 25 married and if I'm honest, it doesn't bother me. It's just the formal way of addressing an envelope that's thrown away.

Also...just been thinking. The only person who addresses me like that is my MIL. SAY.NO.MORE!!!

@Uptheapplesandpears
It’s not based on my ‘mates’, more the endless threads on MN about joint bank accounts, school runs and child care and even husbands being cojoled into marriage. It’s always the Mums sorting this stuff. How many dads do you see at kids parties, or even at the school gate, as a ratio? Then there’s the endless MIL bashing.... and tedious links to threads like this. Is so cliche. My MIL has taken our kids away for half term with their cousins. Yes she took her husbands name and I took his name.... but at least we all pitch in as a family. Like I said, if getting hysterical about an initial on an envelope makes you feel like you’re fighting the good fight on equality that’s fine, but reality is the majority of you are less equal than your grandmothers were. With your separate bank accounts and full time jobs on top of running the home. But hey.... so long as you get your initial on the envelope 😂😂😂

Yes YABU.

Life is short - worry about the big & important things.

My MiL addresses things that are for both DH & I like that. My MiL is absolutely lovely but she's very traditional and formal in certain aspects of life. I used to absolutely hate it, I still don't like it but after 12 years of marriage I don't get upset about it anymore. It's just how she does things.

Pretty much all my friends changed their name when they got married. Most hadn't initially planned to, but in the end decided there was something special about sharing a name. These are mostly highly educated (PhDs, medical doctors) women.

That's everyone apart from me & my husband, we kept our own names. That was always the default expectation between us, and we're both happy with that decision.

@thewarrenerswife

It’s not based on my ‘mates’, more the endless threads on MN about joint bank accounts, school runs and child care and even husbands being cajoled into marriage. It’s always the Mums sorting this stuff. How many dads do you see at kids parties, or even at the school gate, as a ratio?

Then there’s the endless MIL bashing.... and tedious links to threads like this. Is so cliche. My MIL has taken our kids away for half term with their cousins. Yes she took her husbands name and I took his name.... but at least we all pitch in as a family.

Like I said, if getting hysterical about an initial on an envelope makes you feel like you’re fighting the good fight on equality that’s fine, but reality is the majority of you are less equal than your grandmothers were. With your separate bank accounts and full time jobs on top of running the home. But hey.... so long as you get your initial on the envelope. 😂😂😂

Well said, Exactly what I wanted to say. Saved me typing it all!

Calling taking your husband's name 'archaic' is laughable, coz as you say, these women saying this, will ultimately do all the childcare duties/chores, and housework as well, and all household admin. (As WELL as working obviously, coz equal rights, women can work too LOL!) But as you say, at least they have that little TEENY blip of equality........ (the forename initial to cling onto!)

I come in contact with a lot of people in my career... men AND women, and like a few other posters, I also don't know a single woman who kept her maiden name after marriage. I absolutely do not know ONE... They range from women who got married in their 20's, 30's and 40's, in the last three or four years: to women who got married in their 20's 30's and 40's, fifteen to thirty-five years ago... I also know a few women who are 50-55+ who got married recently - AND 40+ years ago - and every single one of them took their husband's surname.

All ages, some recent, some not so recent, and some, some several generations back...... They ALL took their husband's surname.

They range from doctors, surgeons, dentists, solicitors, nurses, admin assistants, judges, vets, police officers, shop workers, cleaners, and market traders. ALL changed to their husband's name. It seems very odd to not want to IMO. I mean, what surname do your kids have?

If the answer is double-barrelled, then why aren't YOU double barrelled too? Literally cannot fathom why women don't want to take their husband's surname. When, as has been mentioned, they are no more equal to men than their grandmothers were 55+ years ago!

I can’t believe how many people on this thread are getting so worked up about this. It’s a non-event, it’s the correct form of address, ok so maybe it’s old fashioned but so what? There’s no intent to offend, it’s simply custom and practice, surely?

To those saying it’s the correct form of address, NO it’s not! Calling me by someone else’s name is NOT ‘correct’! It’s rude. Calling someone by Their ACTUAL name is correct.

It may be archaic and old fashioned and strongly disliked by many. It’s still the correct form of address, regardless of how much anyone might insist it’s inappropriate.

Literally cannot fathom why women don't want to take their husband's surname.

Really? Have you been paying any attention?

no more equal to men than their grandmothers were

You can't possibly be serious?

Do you really think it's logical to assume that the 20-35% of women who don't take their husbands surnames are the same women who do all of the housework and childcare? Or would it make more sense that these women are in more equitable relationships?