First date - should the man pay?

[Newbuild]

Haven’t been on a first date in a long time but when I did I always offered to split it 50/50 and happy to pay for myself but actually I don’t think I’ve ever been on one where he hasn’t insisted and eventually paid.
Watching first dates (the programme) and she completely writes her date off because he didn’t offer to pay for their meal. So wondered what was ‘normal’... do you expect the bloke to pay or go Dutch? Would you judge him if he didn’t offer?

From my friends, they see the women as domineering and a bit butch.

Loving the subtle put down, I've never met a man yet who thought I was "a bit butch" and I'm more than happy to take the challenge and have dinner with any man you know, pay my share and take the bet they don't walk away saying I'm domineering and a bit butch,

But then the men you know don't say that do they, you're just trying to put women down who pay their way,

So you like to have men than pay for you, and you like to put women down who chose to pay,

It says more about you than I think you'd care for us to know.

They do say that.

@HelenaDove The best bit was the Imodium idea so he wouldnt have to buy any extra bog roll

I didn't half laugh at this. I know someone who would do this.

Otherwise, I am firmly convinced that the man should pay, because he's a man. I am very competent (single mothers have no choice), but I have many sexist beliefs. This is one of them. My DSs know my views, though that doesn't mean they will go along with them in their own dating lives.

but I have many sexist beliefs

And I have respect for that. To recognise what it is and say I recognise it is sexist but that's how I roll. To have the balls to own it,

I have a shit ton more respect for it than the "men think your butch and domineering" or " maybe he will financially support me" shit the other posters are rolling out,

I think generally the person that asked pays for the meal

I do think that its nice to offer to go dutch and if its refused offer to get the drinks in

Then you take it in turns

If its in a coffee house or pub then same thing but you take it in turns immediately...if that makes sense

It certainly seems to be how my eldest does it...ive not been on a first date for over 31 years

I wouldn’t date someone again if they insist on paying. It’s a red flag - controlling behaviour.

Men will ask out the woman 9/10 times, so it’s disingenuous to say that the person who asks should pay. That’ll be the man then.

It’s ok to have sexist views but there are downsides to equality too!

Bluntness - I guess I do have certain expectations of men and if that’s “sexist” then so be it. Do you really have none at all?

50/50

PMSL a man paying for a date is controlling behaviour?? That's a good one! Did you do a bungee jump to leap to that particular extrapolation?

Why are some women so determined to not recognise that there are differences between the sexes? I don't see men having periods or giving birth? And you certainly won't be seeing me paying for a first date with a man.

Que, yes, I have plenty of expectations against men, simply they are not financial.

Actually that's not true, I'd struggle to be with a man who could not pay his way, but I've never in my life expected a man to pay for me. And that's the gods honest truth. I expect a man to be able to pay his way, and my expectations past that are about kindness, respect, inteligence, humour, the whole spectrum, but paying for me is not one of my things. That's something that I can do myself and don't need.

You seem happy with your viewpoint Bluntness100, so why can you not allow some of us to have a differing viewpoint?

Go Dutch on first date unless he insists.

Sureyouwill I think we've got the message about your expectations by now.

Bluntness - but can you really say you have no expectations of your DH (I think you said you have one, but apologies if I got that wrong) simply because he’s a man? They don’t have to be financial.

Kindness, respect, intelligence, humour are what we all look for in everyone, friend or romantic / sexual partner; male or female.

For instance, if there was a burglar in the night, would you be totally fine and down with equality if he expected you to go and check it out?

Or if you had to walk home alone at night, would you be fine for him to just let you go because “equality.”

Or if there was only one bed or chair or whatever, can you say you’d be equally happy to lie in the floor and not feel ?

I think if you’re honest, you probably do have expectations of men that are slightly different to those you have of women. Some people just have more expectations, but we all have them to some extent, I think.

Que, sure, I said I have many expectations, but these are very far away from expecting a man to pay for your company in a first date.

Men will ask out the woman 9/10 times, so it’s disingenuous to say that the person who asks should pay. That’ll be the man then

Well as i said the other person should offer to go dutch

Ive only dot what happens with ds1 to go on at the moment

Dd isnt dating, and im fairly positive she would insist on paying her share

Well I don’t know what to say - maybe it’s a generational thing then? I think these days, people just swipe Tinder and meet for a coffee then go off their separate ways, or something like that. It’s more like a screening. But In the 90s when not everyone even had mobiles , you had more of a fixed arrangement, so DH and even others before him would always pick you up and take you home and yes, pay. It didn’t have to be expensive. It was never about money, more about initiative. This was normal and I’m 43. The whole point of a date is that it’s meant to be a different dynamic to meeting your mate or something. If a man said to me, “Come and meet me in this bar, calculated the bill and then bye.,” I just couldn’t be bothered.

"I don't think I've ever dated anyone so intellectually challenged they needed a pocket calculator"

Ever heard of dyscalculia I have it which is why i couldnt pass GCSE Maths. And had to do City and Guilds Numaracy instead My brain makes up for it in other ways though I have a fantastic photographic memory and can often remember what posters say on here and when without having to AS.

ive shocked many friends with this and frightened the fuck out of a junior school teacher when i memorized a whole play EVERY part EVERY line.

Just because some people have a problem with numbers does not mean they are an idiot.

"hairy feminist"

Some of us cant afford all these treatments. I wear make up. I have my hair coloured every six weeks. I cant afford waxes as well. So yes shock horror i have body hair. I dont do tanning. It doesnt interest me. I dont sunbathe drink or smoke. Im 45 and do not have one wrinkle yet.

Berating women for being hairy is not very fair especially when not all women can afford all these expectations.

No wonder so many working class women feel that feminism doesnt speak to them..................well only when they want them to fork out for things they cant afford.

this thread is quite classist.

In the dozen or so women I've been on dates with recently not one has even tried to split the bill. In fact even the lady who agreed on a fifth date did not pay anything to any of them. Maybe I'm gullible or maybe harsh but the last 2 women I met were dropped after the second date. 7

@HelenaDove of course I'm aware of dyscalculia. I was taking the piss out of our determined gold digger - as I was when I repeated her "hairy feminist" comment. She did seem to be getting somewhat aereated.

I ain't no golddigga honey. Got me own place, my own income, these boots? I bought em etc.
But if you want to take me out on a date, don't expect me to pay for it.