To think my autistic child should be allowed to contact me?

[Seline]

Son is 3 and being assessed for autism. Told it's likely he will be diagnosed and that they're also considering ADHD. He very obviously has both. I have fairly "bad" ADHD myself so I know exactly what it is.

Recently he's been having major meltdowns and outbursts of aggression at nursery. Throwing things, biting, kicking etc. He's speech delayed so can't communicate properly and often the other, older and more articulate children talk over him. The staffing ratio is 1 to 8 which is crap, I have barely any of these issues at home because I can see and intervene before we get to meltdown but they have too many children to do that.

Anyway my son is doing this because he is anxious. I nearly died and spent a lot of time in hospital and this is when his behaviour suddenly went like this. He keeps telling me he is scared I will leave him

I have told him he can speak to me whenever he wants and asked nursery to call me if he is distressed and let me talk him down. Firstly they told me no because it'll upset the other children, I said I think getting bitten will upset them more. Then they said the office phone is always too busy so they don't want him getting upset over not being able to use the phone.

I offered to buy a mobile phone and give to his key worker and that only I have the number to, and that they can tell him is a phone to mummy and to use that.

Got told no as that would take the key worker away from other children. I said but you're already away from them by spending half an hour calming his meltdowns down!

Asked if I could keep it in the office and one of the admin ladies could call me from it and supervise. Told no as their admin work is very important

This isn't fair is it?! They should be making reasonable adjustments.

OP, if you think you need EMDR then you could also need counselling. It's not a case of needing help but only the help you decide on -you either need help or you don't. Try counselling. Certainly easier to get than EMDR!

With regards to the phone YABU. Its not a good move and I say that as the mother of a severely autistic son who worries about me quite a bit. When he was at school, if it came up during the day and he got in a state staff would say they'd talked to me and I'm fine. Job done. Collection times were routinely made known to him and I'd let staff know what I was doing during the day so they could tell him. He's nearly 20 now and in his own staff with a 24/7 care team. I bought him a mobile so he could contact me and while it was helpful in many ways he got into an immense panic if he couldn't get hold of me. One night, after I'd left his house and gone home, he tried calling me and my phone had unexpectedly died. Next thing you know I had police on my doorstep as due to me not answering the phone he called 999 and told them I was dead (his mobile was registered to my house which has a vulnerability flag on it, so they came right out!). If your son had a phone at nursery and couldn't get hold of you what do you think would happen? He'd think something had happened to you!

A phone is not a coping mechanism (and I'll add that my sons wasn't, it was so he knew I was still there and if there was a problem in his home he could call me or text me). You also cannot be at beck and call permanently.

You need to sort some help for him but you also need to be sensible in how you and nursery deal with this.

I agree it's important to thing about the language you use in speaking about what happened. Probably better to say "Mummy was sick, so I went to hospital and the doctors and nurses helped me to get better" rather than "I almost died". Do you have any toys of hospitals, doctors extra? Kid's process through play so it might be helpful for him. Either play therapy or family therapy would be helpful.

I agree that being able to phone you isn't sustainable. More 1:1 And a sensory den sound good, and like the nursery are doing their best.

I think the social story example given by a pp is very good.

You said yourself that 1:8 ratio is difficult. If you put in additional provisions like moving to a different space to call you, you’re looking at 7 children on their own. It’s not feasible. Build-a-Bear with a voice recordable?

You say all behaviours began with hospital. No sign of ADHD/ ASD prior to that? Have you been referred/ considered play therapy?

He hasn't been told I almost died. He was told "mummy and the two babies (he always called the twins the two babies) needed to stay with the doctors because they were poorly and the doctors made them better."

Re counselling I don't find it helpful. I've had it before for something else, can't remember if I mentioned I have ADHD myself and before dx I used to have bad anxiety about stuff and it didn't work at all.

I find practical solutions to be the most helpful. I'd rather just forget the birth. I don't speak about it in person very often and I prefer to keep it that way.

No sign of ADHD/ ASD prior to that?

No he still had the signs he just wasn't aggressive and doing stuff like fighting and having several meltdowns a day. He was still being assessed prior to this he was just more like a coiled spring very energetic and had traits like lining up his toys and liking routine and no sense of danger. No aggression unless a huge meltdown occurred which was rare back then.

But your not forgetting it. Your hiding the memories but that’s not the same as forgetting.

The longer you don’t deal with trauma for the harder it becomes to deal with.

And his verbal skills are good? Would you say they’re advanced?

The diagnosis will lead to funding for 1-1 but it’s a slow process. Is there any wriggle room for him to be at home? Are you at home with the babies rather than working? He doesn’t sound ready and it’s exacerbating his anxiety. You know that though.

I find time really useful. The further away something is the less upsetting it becomes.

I had a miscarriage which was traumatic physically and felt like this. That was over a year ago and I'm at peace with it now.

They don't handle him properly.

If this is how you feel then you need to move him. Being a nursery nurse and responsible for all of these children (some of whom may have complex issues which you know nothing about) isn't easy and they have to consider all the children in their care. It's not reasonable to ask them to have a phone for your DS. Trying to get to the bottom of the triggers for meltdowns is key (though you know that), so perhaps nursery is not the best setting for him just now.

And don't tell him about any medical appointments that you have. I hope things get easier for you soon.

No he's behind with his speech and he copies but doesn't understand.

I've changed his days to mornings only which should hopefully help.

Children process trauma surprisingly well when it’s openly discussed. It’a like anything that’s squirrelled away - our nature is to distrust it and avoid it. Although it’s hard for you, he has no real idea what went on (obviously he needs the reassuring version) and clearly, one way of another, he thought you were dying. On a daily basis, he’s battling with this preconception that you’re dead and it may become obsessive.

MostlyBoastly agreed, but ASD can often mean that someone sees a situation in a different way, which can make information more difficult to process.

It's when parents collect their kids he has the most problems. I've always collected him late to avoid crowds and noise because I hate it myself, I feel like an idiot for not thinking DS might get upset at being collected second to last. He's never minded it before but given the context i see why he isn't happy with it.

Hence me putting him in mornings to avoid that!

Of course the parents are going to complain about your child if their children are coming home with black eyes on multiple occasions! Obviously it's not his fault but they can't complain without mentioning his name because it's about him...

Rather than changing his routine completely (and bearing in mind that others will probably be mornings only) can you not just pick up early?

Ds finishes school 20 minutes before the others to avoid the pick up time chaos.

That makes sense OP, you might find that he might have worried you weren't coming back for him?

Sirzy I asked that but they said they have less kids in mornings and can give him 121 every morning but can't in the afternoon so I'd prefer him to be there when the 121 is available.

Harry that's what I'm thinking now, he must see everyone going and think I'm not coming. It was a nursery day that I got blue lighted away so makes sense!

Sounds like a good plan then

It all sounds hugely positive with the one to one and reducing his hours for now. Well done you!

I just wanted to echo what others have said about Pecs. I would ask the nursery for a copy of the visual timeline that they use and then show him before he goes in each morning. I imagine they'll have a line of pictures representing carpet time, snack time, free play, outside, story time and home time (among others).

We got DS1 the playmobil hospital as he had a severe phobia - no SEN but he was prem, very unwell as a baby, then had a couple of surgeries before the age of 5 so a phobia of hospitals is quite understandable! It helped him when we played together and talked about it. We also did what pp suggested and took him to the hospital shop and cafe, and he came with me to a simple checkup appointment so he could see that hospital isn’t always about the scary stuff. You may be better off not talking about these things but that doesn’t becessarily apply to your son and he may need this in order to process his emotions.

DS2 is undergoing asd assessment and we find social stories, as well as transition objects help (he gets to choose a teddy/toy to accompany him to school, it then comes to work with me or he’d lose it!). School have a “now and next” chart and visual timetable do he can mentally tick off events until hometime. They have a quiet den set up for him to use too.

He found drop off and pick up very hard at first due to the noise, extra people so school allowed him to go into the cloakroom first, hang his stuff on his peg then go into the empty classroom before everyone else. He’s now able to cope with lining up with the other kids - his own decision to start doing that. Home time is better now I pick him up from tea club so it’s not so chaotic in the playground. He still has meltdowns after school but they are much shorter and he’s doing better at communicating his issues. He has ear defenders in his bag and does sometimes use them when it all gets too much.

Forgot to add that DS2 tends to process things much better if he has a visual to refer to rather than me just talking. A certain level of detachment helps so I talk about events as if it’s someone else involved so it takes the emotion out. He seems to understand what’s happening better.

I sympathise as my (ASD and now 10 year old) son’s nursery when he was there was completely shit. I think the answer though is to try and find a setting that will suit him better. He’ll be at school soon and may have all these anxieties and I can tell you now that there’s no way a school will pander to this.

It was a nursery day that I got blue lighted away so makes sense!

Ah bless him, you might just have cracked it with the new plan.

My DD used to worry about people being in hospital (she was older than your DS though) and once she was able to explain that hospitals can be positive places where people can go to get better, it became a less scary place for her.

Sorry but I don’t think a child should be allowed to call home when they are upset at nursery. I don’t think having SEN makes much difference. Both my dd’s are autistic and struggled at nursery until I found the right one, nursery would call me to tell me they had settled but there’s no way I would expect to talk to my child over the phone. I think distraction is key and he should have more support at nursery to help with this, if nursery are not providing him with extra support then I would be looking at moving him to somewhere that can.