To think my autistic child should be allowed to contact me?

[Seline]

Son is 3 and being assessed for autism. Told it's likely he will be diagnosed and that they're also considering ADHD. He very obviously has both. I have fairly "bad" ADHD myself so I know exactly what it is.

Recently he's been having major meltdowns and outbursts of aggression at nursery. Throwing things, biting, kicking etc. He's speech delayed so can't communicate properly and often the other, older and more articulate children talk over him. The staffing ratio is 1 to 8 which is crap, I have barely any of these issues at home because I can see and intervene before we get to meltdown but they have too many children to do that.

Anyway my son is doing this because he is anxious. I nearly died and spent a lot of time in hospital and this is when his behaviour suddenly went like this. He keeps telling me he is scared I will leave him

I have told him he can speak to me whenever he wants and asked nursery to call me if he is distressed and let me talk him down. Firstly they told me no because it'll upset the other children, I said I think getting bitten will upset them more. Then they said the office phone is always too busy so they don't want him getting upset over not being able to use the phone.

I offered to buy a mobile phone and give to his key worker and that only I have the number to, and that they can tell him is a phone to mummy and to use that.

Got told no as that would take the key worker away from other children. I said but you're already away from them by spending half an hour calming his meltdowns down!

Asked if I could keep it in the office and one of the admin ladies could call me from it and supervise. Told no as their admin work is very important

This isn't fair is it?! They should be making reasonable adjustments.

I understand it's upsetting for your child go have a black eye or whatever but if you know the child has SEN I'd be complaining about why the situation was allowed to develop not the child.

Poor little boy ... I hope you sort something out because he must be so distressed ... when other family members are around, maybe it would be an idea to ask them to take him for the odd hour here or there without you so he can try and get used to you not being around in bits and pieces to begin with - must be heartbreaking

icerebel your suggestions are great, and I'm not saying a phone is the right way forward. But yes others were saying that the nursery can't/shouldn't do things that they won't then do for all kids, which is just so unhelpful and I hate to see a parent struggling and being told that...

I understand it's upsetting for your child go have a black eye or whatever but if you know the child has SEN I'd be complaining about why the situation was allowed to develop not the child

Upsetting wouldn't even cover how I would feel if I paid to leave my child in a safe setting and they were returned to me with a black eye and then attacked again.

And that's exactly what I said. I would rip the nursery apart. I would demand that things were put in place to protect my child. But that would of course involve discussing the violence and the one committing the violence.

That's not blaming him. He can't help it. But he would not be my worry. My child would be.

I think a photo of you on his desk and possibly a little recording of you saying some encouraging words. Then after a while make the recording a little shorter, and so on. The point is to enable him to get through the day without “needing” hear/see you. Also a positive reward system for when he has days with no meltdowns and doesn’t need to hear your voice etc.

Completely agree, I'd be absolutely livid if my child came home with a black eye. No it's not your child's fault but my child is the one I'd be concerned about.

he doesnt need a diagnosis to get SEN help or an EHCP howver he may need one to access specialsit nursery provision.....

however it does sound like his current meltdowns are more related to his anxiety than his autism , so in addition to trying transition objects as mentioned before - maybe see if there are some play therapists in your area....or talk to your /babies health if they have any sibling support (he maybe a bit young)

coudl you reduce the time so 3 shorter sessions and then build up again....or if it must be whole days then a slow build up 1 day/tehn 1.5 then 2 then 2.5 then 3....

I think your right that it is good for him to be with his friends and run around as a 3yr old not with babies all the time.....its just those moments were he notices you've gone .....catching those... could the nursery do a diary to see if there is a time/activity link

@Seline it might be also worth your time getting some play therapy sessions for him and some counseling for you to help you both deal with what has happened and help you both to build a more positive outlook going forward

OP I have a child with ASD and it is very hard to understand sometimes for non SEN parents that the sensory world our children can be totally different to NT kids. Behavioural issues aren't typically 'coachable' in the same way and that incredibly high anxiety can send ASD kids into real meltdown ( panic attack not tantrum) which is distressing for these kids.

I would suggest you think very seriously about whether a mainstream nursery can really meet your sons needs. Potentially a SEN trained childminder could help?

I suggest you look at the SN Chat on Mumsnet too

I would concentrate my efforts on pushing for funding for more 121 hours for him.

Sounds horrendous for you but hope that the comments here have helped show that the idea that he can be appeased by phoning you just isn’t going to work. It’s not a practical solution long term. Thing is does it need to be.... he was settled, he is unsettled now after experiencing trauma. He needs resettling. He need his nursery experience resetting. His world rocked. He ‘lost’ you did a while. All the adults were upset about something. New baby and Mum came home and then.... he is still sorting himself out. October is no time at all for him to have processed this. For a start off it’s potentially not that many days at nursery actually when you take out Christmas break etc. And it isn’t the same anymore him at nursery. He was settled and nursery day followed a pattern. Now he arrives, isn’t happy, does x and so y happens and so he does x and so.....etc etc. His friends... and you & his nursery workers probably in all honesty aren’t the same with him at nursery. You are all tense and testing. It’s rubbish. He needs it to change.

Adding things from home as described may help.

Starting again may help - new nursery or childminder if it’s gone too far for you but that’s a big change - maybe you could do the settling in process again ie stay x time etc and / or he gets a new key worker? Maybe he needs to start saying goodbye at home so he doesn’t get stressed at nursery and Nanna could take him.... and get him a treat on the way home. Break the cycle he has got into. He doesn’t know - at 3 - how too.

@Seline I think he would also benefit from one positive hospital experiences. Maybe you could go there some day with him and sit in the cafe ( if they have one) get him a drink and just listen to the sounds and people watch etc. Then the next time go up one of the lifts etc,pretend you need to ask a question etc. take him to an appointment you know will be short and sweet. Build it up from there. Avoiding meltdown situations does not help anyone,you need to almost create them and teach him (and you) how to deal with them.

OP, I too was spirited away to hospital, for 8 days in my case, and when I came out he was physically attacking me for ages. He didnt let me out of his sight for 2 years or so, honestly, his autism was made so much worse. he was 3 as well.

He was able to keep his feelings in check at nursery but home was a different matter.

How is he sleeping? Bevause when my son went on melatonin, all of his other symptoms greatly eased. they do get worse when hes stressed.

When I was 3 I ended up in hospital for an operation and had to stay for several days. That was back in the day when parents were only allowed in during visiting hours & couldn't stay over and I was terrified about being left. When I got home I couldn't cope with being left at night to go to sleep and it took ages (apparently), with my mum having to sit outside my bedroom door and gradually moving further away to the stairs, before I could get back to normal. I have autism. It's difficult - there's a lot of rigid thinking and that needs repeated reassurance (I still need to be able to reassure myself through repeated positive experiences before my brain can accept that something is okay and won't go wrong). He'll get there OP, it'll just take a (possibly long) while.

My friend’s dd had a teddy with a recordable message thing inside, so the teddy when squeezed said a brief message in friend’s voice. Might that be comforting for him ? “I will see you soon ds” or something along those lines ?

Re the parents knowing your son has SN to them it doesn't matter. My DD has SN but has never attacked or bitten another child - I'm not blaming your son, but if she was coming home with bites or scratches due to another childs meltdown to the point it could be affecting the support she gets for her SN then yes I'd be unhappy about it. They can't tell you which other children might need their help, but there could easily be a child like my DD who needs support but could get overlooked in the events you describe, my DD would be scared if another child came up and bit her.

I sympathise, I really do but a regular phone call isn't the answer.

Same here. My DS is a very quiet, gentle, compliant autistic child. He would be utterly terrified just witnessing a meltdown. He is terrified of loud noises, screaming and shouting. If he were bitten or scratched just once he'd have nightmares for weeks. If it were a regular thing I'd have to keep him home until the school/nursery could guarantee it wouldn't happen again.

Surely it's more anxiety than autism that is making him so distressed? And his speech delay means he can't understand the explanations that you're really ok and will see him later.

I think you've had some really good ideas, but I think if the nursery will keep him on then his key worker should be given more time to be with him one-to-one. I know it will cost them money till funding may be available, but it is a safeguarding issue and they need to address it.

Hi,

When my son was three, we had similar problems at nursery. He would bite and attack other children and found certain activities very stressful. He had no diagnosis at the time, but a member of staff worked closely with him, and he was allowed to do alternative activities (such as sweeping the floor in the other room with a member of staff) when group singing took place. We also had help from the Portage Society at home.

My son was not formally diagnosed with autism until he was seven (this was twelve years ago) but nursery and, later, school made reasonable adjustments prior to the diagnosis. I also came in to help on certain days.

You could also ask for statutory assessment with the view of obtaining an EHCP.

Surely it's more anxiety than autism that is making him so distressed?
Both I'd say - they go hand in hand. The anxiety makes him distressed, the autism provides the anxiety in the first place and controls the rigid thinking that stops his brain from processing the 'mum's home, it's all okay' part.

Also I don't want this to go down the wrong way but 3 is very young for being so anxious for this specific situation.
Like how would he know you had nearly died in hospital? It's obviously been discussed infront of him and he's not been properly supported through that situation.

I think you might also need to put a big focus on your own anxiety and how that might be negatively affecting him at the moment. But that's just the vibe I get.

I've been in that situation with a child the same age who was looked after by family members and things were not dramatised infront of him, he isn't aware I nearly died at all. But for it to have affected him this much that there is such a sudden change in behaviour that now you are telling people he has SEN before he's even been diagnosed just from that event, it's clearly having a big impact on him and it's something you maybe need to address.

Also the phone would become a crux for him. He'd become relient on the phone whuch would worsen his anxiety.

Parents are always the best ones to calm down their children. You need to work with the nusery. Not much you can do about the parents who moan. They have every right to get upset, id be suprised if it was a regular thing they wouldnt have been in touch with nursery.

BollocksToBrexit no school can guarantee a child isn't ever going to be bitten or scratched.

No they can't. But OP said this is happening repeatedly. That is awful. And they have a duty to keep the other infants safe. A duty they are filing in.

Wow..

Whats the harm in the kid being able to ask to speak to his mum?

The lack of understanding of anxiety, and psychology here is stunning.

Give the child the security of knowing he can call Mum if needed, and as long as he isn't actually being pushed over threshold constantly, that knowledge will in fact reduce the need over time.

If he becomes reliant on phoning mum, the fault does not lie with the ability to call mum, but with the stressors placed on him, ie hes being put over threshold constantly, and becoming sensitized to the situation rather than de-sensitized.

Build security first - independence follows.