To think my autistic child should be allowed to contact me?

[Seline]

Son is 3 and being assessed for autism. Told it's likely he will be diagnosed and that they're also considering ADHD. He very obviously has both. I have fairly "bad" ADHD myself so I know exactly what it is.

Recently he's been having major meltdowns and outbursts of aggression at nursery. Throwing things, biting, kicking etc. He's speech delayed so can't communicate properly and often the other, older and more articulate children talk over him. The staffing ratio is 1 to 8 which is crap, I have barely any of these issues at home because I can see and intervene before we get to meltdown but they have too many children to do that.

Anyway my son is doing this because he is anxious. I nearly died and spent a lot of time in hospital and this is when his behaviour suddenly went like this. He keeps telling me he is scared I will leave him

I have told him he can speak to me whenever he wants and asked nursery to call me if he is distressed and let me talk him down. Firstly they told me no because it'll upset the other children, I said I think getting bitten will upset them more. Then they said the office phone is always too busy so they don't want him getting upset over not being able to use the phone.

I offered to buy a mobile phone and give to his key worker and that only I have the number to, and that they can tell him is a phone to mummy and to use that.

Got told no as that would take the key worker away from other children. I said but you're already away from them by spending half an hour calming his meltdowns down!

Asked if I could keep it in the office and one of the admin ladies could call me from it and supervise. Told no as their admin work is very important

This isn't fair is it?! They should be making reasonable adjustments.

Please please please don't take this comment the wrong way, I don't mean it to sound ignorant or anything, I don't know much about adhd.

But if his behaviour only went like this suddenly after your health scare, are you sure it's not something else?

I'm with the nursery. They need to be able to get a grip of this themselves.

How about a social story that both you and the nursery have a copy of, and you read through with him before he goes, and they do with him when he is there?

Also the nursery can create a visual timetable for him, which hopefully will help him know what is happening and when, and could also include a photo of you at the end of the session.

It sounds like he is a bright boy, who understands a lot, but just because he hears and understands what is being said to him does not mean that his anxiety is reduced and that he has fully process what is being said, particularly when distressed. Visual information and cues may be really helpful for him.

Could your mother keep him at home until more suitable arrangements are made?

Plus my mother who is retired offered to be the second contact if there was absolutely no way I could answer. He is very close to both of us.

How does that solve the problem of him thinking you're not coming back or dead, as he won't actually be speaking to you?

You can get photo albums for children where you can also record a message. Perhaps that might help. Also just lots of photos of you and him to look at at nursery and objects that he associates with you.

He has three friends he plays with inbetween meltdowns and until October he loved it which is why I haven't looked for anywhere else and instead want to work at getting him to enjoy it again.

The home box may work.

But if his behaviour only went like this suddenly after your health scare, are you sure it's not something else?
This, you keep doing he had SEN but he may not get the diagnosis you assume. His behaviour could well be trauma related. I've seen your out posts about your babies and what you've all been through is horrendous and you're clearly feeling the impact. He will also pick up on this. He is scared, and insecure and it's not just about the hospital, his whole world has turned upside down.

It's unreasonable to ask the nursery to facilitate phone calls and long term won't be beneficial to him. If a nursery setting isn't suitable maybe a childminder would be better, it's a more intimate environment and she could have a video on her phone etc in a way the nursery can't.

However I'm unsure because he used to visit me in hospital but still thought I wouldn't come back. So I don't know.

But given this I don't see why your plan would work, even ignoring all the (very clear) practical impossibilities of it as explained by others on this thread? You seem to think that he'll call you, find you're fine and then play happily for the rest of the day. It seems more likely to me (and I would guess to the nursery) that he'll call you, find out you're fine - and then want to call you again five minutes later. If the issue is that he thinks you might die at any moment (and I am really sorry for what both you and he are going through - it's heartbreaking that he has this fear, I just don't think this is a good way of dealing with it) knowing you were alive five minutes ago is as meaningless as knowing you were alive when you dropped him off that morning, especially to a toddler with a limited concept of time.

My son is 7 and in a specialist school he has adhd autism and learning difficulties . Before he went to a specialist nursery at 3 he went to a mainstream nursery for a year ( between ages 2-3 ) the nursery wouldn’t take him without a 1:1 . Perhaps this is something you need to ask for your son if his needs are significantly more than the other children .
Regarding your son having a mobile phone at nursery , I really don’t agree with this . First and foremost he is just 3 years old this is far to young to have a phone . Also many phones have cameras on them so this would also potentially be a safeguarding issue .

I don’t think the nursery is being unreasonable. They do have other children they need to look after and although you rightly put that a quick call will calm him quicker than the meltdown it’s not a long term plan.

What you could do is give him something like a bear which has a recorded message from you on (I think the bear factory sells them). Make sure you have cuddled the hell out of it so it gets your smell onto it.
Also, a photo album on his peg/in his bag might help. Put your photos, family photos, pictures of his room at home and familiar things in it so he can look at it when he’s stressed.

Have you considered a different nursery? Or a child minder? It could be that your son would do better in a smaller setting than a setting of a ration of 8-1

FriarTuck this could work. I've had my friend who's a medical student listen with a stethoscope on me in front of him and tell him mummys fine now.

Re whether my mum would still panic him the answer is no because he always assumes we are together as we usually are and live almost next door to each other.

They did let me do this once and he instantly calmed down and didn't ask to phone me again. Whether he would ask again in five minutes if I did it again I don't know.

I definitely think he's traumatised by it, so it's not purely his SEN but his speech delay and impulsive behaviour and immature emotional understanding make that so much harder for him.

At home he is fine. He still has meltdowns but they're manageable.

I think a child minder or specialist nursery may be better, I have contacted a local specialist nursery about what id need to do to get DS a place should this nursery not work out.

Going off topic but I am really sorry you're having to deal with all this.
Your plate is bloody full and I hope it all gets easier in the future.

OP how did you get from...

Recently he's been having major meltdowns and outbursts of aggression at nursery. Throwing things, biting, kicking etc. He's speech delayed so can't communicate properly and often the other, older and more articulate children talk over him

to 'actually he loves it and plays with his friends'

Not much point people trying to help you based on the above if you are just going to change the details when you don't agree with the advice.

Seline you'll get more sensible responses if you post this in the Special Needs section. It's absurd when people start talking about setting precedents that will have to be extended to all the children. The whole point of the legal notion of reasonable adjustments is exactly the opposite (let alone compassionate common sense). A phone may not the be the right solution but you'll get helpful thoughts in SN. I have a now teenage autistic son and am only too aware of how little people understand.

What happens though if you are in one of your medical appointments and can't answer? Is he then going to become more distressed that he was unable to talk to you? Unfortunately I think you will need to work with the nursery to develop sustainable strategies that others can use as you are not always going to be available for him.

@orangetin would the nursery have to make reasonable adjustments for someone who hasn’t been diagnosed with anything yet.
I fully agreee, most people commenting won’t have an understanding of a child with SEN (and I am one of them) but hopefully people will offer a suggestion that might work

Phone calls is not a good solution and will not be a good precedent to set. It will certainly never work in a school setting, so don't start it.

Firstly, you need to address his panicking in medical settings. That is never going to be practical, and by him not seeing what is going on at appointments, could be making the issues worse. Start off by packing a picnic lunch and going to have a picnic in the grounds of your hospital. No appointments, just lunch and a game in the grounds. You could also ask your GPs office if he could come in with his favourite stuffed toy and they could 'treat' him - check temperature, give him a bandaid and a lollipop for your son - take the mystery and fear out of it. Lots of picture books and cartoons about hospitals and doctors. Gradually build up his time in these settings that are no big deal.

Quite aside from his fear of medical settings, there could also be the feeling of abandonment that mummy now has other children who are getting all of his attention while he gets dropped at nursery. There could be an element of jealousy. Having sick babies is very hard, and he really could be feeling left out and just wanting some time alone with you. Setting aside some time alone with just him could be good for him.

At nursery, start by dropping him off for just one hour and setting a visual timer. Pick him up, but don't make a massive deal about it. The next day, do the same. The following week, make it two. Make it always the same drop off and pick up time each day, even if you don't need him to be there as the same routine will be easier on him. Print out a visual schedule with pictures of what the clock will look like when you are picking him up. A visual countdown timer (The Time Tracker (www.worldwideshoppingmall.co.uk/toys/learning-resources-time-tracker-2-0.asp) is a great one that really worked well with my son, and that I use in the classroom for students with autism) placed somewhere that he can see will also be good for him to get a visual cue.

I said he had friends and inbetween these half hour meltdowns he enjoys it.

I've posted in SN but don't get any responses, sadly.

I don't think having a phone is an adjustment that is reasonable because of the potential difficulties it could cause within the setting. It would not be allowed in my son's special school.

We have special time every Sunday where I take him to the park alone and Soft Play Tuesdays where the siblings come too but either my mum or a friend comes and watches the babies while me and DS1 play.

lordvoldetort legally there doesn't need to be a formal diagnosis for disability laws to apply although it helps. If a child is going through the diagnostic process and is likely going to get a diagnosis, then it would be sensible for a school or nursery to start making reasonable adjustments, and many do.
https://contact.org.uk/advice-and-support/education-learning/disability-discrimination-in-school/

But Orangetin I don't believe anyone on the thread has said the nursery shouldn't be making reasonable adjustments

• family box
• video of the OP
• teddy with a voice
• scarf on a peg
• transitional object

All suggested by people on this thread. It's just the idea of a phone call on demand, or a mobile phone that people are disagreeing with.

I'll try those suggestions and see if they help. I don't like DS being so upset.

Apparently parents are complaining about him biting and throwing. They KNOW he has SEN because I've told most of them

I understand Op. But just as your baby is your priority their babies are their priority.

They will be demanding that the nursery ensure that they complete their duty of care their their children and keep them safe.