To think my autistic child should be allowed to contact me?

[Seline]

Son is 3 and being assessed for autism. Told it's likely he will be diagnosed and that they're also considering ADHD. He very obviously has both. I have fairly "bad" ADHD myself so I know exactly what it is.

Recently he's been having major meltdowns and outbursts of aggression at nursery. Throwing things, biting, kicking etc. He's speech delayed so can't communicate properly and often the other, older and more articulate children talk over him. The staffing ratio is 1 to 8 which is crap, I have barely any of these issues at home because I can see and intervene before we get to meltdown but they have too many children to do that.

Anyway my son is doing this because he is anxious. I nearly died and spent a lot of time in hospital and this is when his behaviour suddenly went like this. He keeps telling me he is scared I will leave him

I have told him he can speak to me whenever he wants and asked nursery to call me if he is distressed and let me talk him down. Firstly they told me no because it'll upset the other children, I said I think getting bitten will upset them more. Then they said the office phone is always too busy so they don't want him getting upset over not being able to use the phone.

I offered to buy a mobile phone and give to his key worker and that only I have the number to, and that they can tell him is a phone to mummy and to use that.

Got told no as that would take the key worker away from other children. I said but you're already away from them by spending half an hour calming his meltdowns down!

Asked if I could keep it in the office and one of the admin ladies could call me from it and supervise. Told no as their admin work is very important

This isn't fair is it?! They should be making reasonable adjustments.

some help with getting ovr his hospital anxiety is something id consider love.
could you go to hospital.show him this is where people go to get well.
sit in the car park.maybe have a ice cream or picnic.show him its not all bad.even sit in the café there for a drink.how this is the place the saved mummy and babys life!
have a word with the doc on ur next appoitnemtn.ask if you can bring your ds in next time and he could make it nice for him and do a bit of a role play to ease him into it.and see its not so bad at all.
his behaviour spiraled after this event so whether he has sen or not he sounds like he has ptsd in some parts too so this needs to be dealt with separately.

If you're a SAHM and your mum, who he is close to, is retired and practically lived next door, then I don't see why you'd still be sending him to nursery in these circumstances. If you have medical appointments that he can't go to, would your mum not step in? I know nursery has benefits but they sound severely outweighed in this situation and his trauma is still recent, and he is still so little. Why not take him out for a while or at least reduce as hours like a pp said to 'reset' his routine and expectations. With the best will in the world, doesn't sound like a nursery is the right childcare solution for him right now. Childminder or nanny might be be able to accommodate what you're asking, but seeing as you and your mum are around, that seems like the best solution at least till he's a little older and more able to cope. Quite apart from all the specific issues, if I'd have told my DC what you said - "you're going to nursery and I'll be at home with baby x and baby y" - they'd have been upset and not understood why they couldn't be with me too, so surely it only adds to his turmoil.

I'm sorry about the stresses you have with this op but YABVVU. I think you are so caring and worried for your son that you are not really considering the needs of all the other children, which the nursery must do and bring very, very (!) unfair to the nursery.

You complain about staff:student ratios. That was the case when u signed him up. That is the norm for nurseries and you must have signed an agreement for this. You sound like you think the world owes you. If you don't like it you should leave - it is not relevant why you can't. Slagging off the nursery (who haven't done anything wrong with their ratios) is unfair.

What happens if the nursery call for you to speak to your son and you are in one of your medical appointments? What happens if your son throws and breaks the mobile phone you've bought, Will the nursery be blamed for that? It ludicrous that you think this would be an appropriate solution.

If nursery settings don't work for your son find another answer - keep him home, get a nanny. It is not the nurseries fault that you can't or don't want to.

My son is older but also has ADHD (your son is v young for a diagnosis but i’m Assuming it could be different alongside autism?). He had a terrible time at school last year. I read (possibly on here?) about someone drawing a heart on her hand - I drew one on my hand and one on his and then said when he got upset or sad at school he had to touch the heart and he knew I would be thinking of him and he would be home soon. And I said I would do the same when I was missing him. It seemed to help - not sure if your little one would understand that though.

I think nursery are right. He won't learn to manage his emotions at nursery if he relies on your voice to calm him. Nursery need to find a way of calming him without phoning you.

Nurserys have rules, if you don't agree with them you need to find another nursery or a childminder or nanny.

Biting, kicking, hurting others is a serious issue in nursery. Other parents will be complaining if their children are coming home injured or frightened of your son. Perhaps the nursery don't want to reward aggressive behaviour (even fear based) with a phone call to mum?

Asked if I could keep it in the office and one of the admin ladies could call me from it and supervise. Told no as their admin work is very important hmm

Can't get past this comment. How very rude. You think you're better than people who work in admin?

They probably won't do it for you because you're so patronising and condescending in the way you've spoken to the staff.

Your child has been exposed to things that he cannot compute. Taking him to visit you in hospital when you were so ill was a terrible idea! He's also got 2 younger siblings that have taken up a great deal of your time. Why on earth does he need to know when you have a hospital appointment? You're just adding to his separation anxiety! On top of all that, he gets shipped off to nursery when he just wants to be home with his mum.
All of the above are the real reasons why he is reacting as he does whilst at nursery. If he does receive a diagnosis of ASD, that will add to the complexity of his communication difficulties.
Just because he has funding for support at nursery doesn't mean he should be going. He may well benefit much more from staying at home with you for another year. The phone call idea is a really bad one, it will not change his emotional state at all.

They don't have to make reasonable adjustments until he is actually diagnosed, according to the letter of the law.

Not true, where a child has an obvious disability as is the case here.

You are asking to set a precedent they would have to uphold for everyone, and they can't do that.

Not a valid argument. You wouldn't claim that allowing the child in a wheelchair not to stand is setting a bad precedent, would you?

here was a nursery who ofsted tried to close because they used a mobile phone as their office phone.

That was because it had a camera facility. There's an obvious way to avoid that problem.

Sorry op but yabu

Adjustments do have to be reasonable and I don't think this is one is because there are so many potential problems associated with it. I speak from the position of having a child with a multitude of reasonable adjustments in place.

I think they have made up their minds about a phone whether it’s a good idea or not.
The strategies that would spring to mind for me would be -
-Having a consistent affective approach when he is in crisis. (SEN training needed?)
-Having a break out space available to him.

• Visual schedule of the day invlcluding a ‘home to mummy’ at the end of the day.
• Box of calming objects and photos of you.
• Sensory diet
• 1-1 assistance to identify triggers and prevent escalation

I spoke to the nursery about this issue.

Surprisingly they have secured extra 121 for him! They apologised and said they had been frustrated because they didn't know what to do but have been able to do this after speaking to some senior managers. I didn't expect this at all.

I asked if DS1 was happy there, he tells me he is but because of his understanding levels it's not always clear. They said he is very happy it's just when something bothers him he can't deal with it. I told them how I handle him at home and they said with extra 121 they should be able to do that.

I asked if they'd create a sensory den as DS1 usually tries to hide when upset and the room is open plan, meaning the other kids crowd round him and he then ends up hitting them because he wants to be on his own. They've agreed and said they'll create a small covered space with LEDs and cushions.

We've also been able to isolate the time DS gets anxious. It's parent collection time. The parents and children get very loud and it frightens DS and as he's tired by that point he ends up having meltdowns. I've decided to put him in just for mornings to avoid the issue of this completely.

Hopefully these solutions might help anyone else who's struggling with this.

The problem with this is it isn’t tackling the core problem, in fact it is feeding it.

He needs help and support to deal with what he has witnessed not having that phobia fed further.

Also until the trauma is dealt with from what I experienced with ds it will be much harder to get any other diagnosis in place because it becomes hard to pinpoint what is causing what.

Taking him to visit you in hospital when you were so ill was a terrible idea!

He didn't know where I'd gone. We used to speak on the phone but he can't speak much and kept asking to see me. There was also a very real risk I could die so I don't think I did anything wrong by allowing him to visit me.

That said I remember visiting my own mum in similar circumstances when I was about 4 and it did upset me, and I have always been afraid of hospitals so maybe I shouldn't have done that.

@Seline please think seriously about some play therapy for your son and counseling for yourself. This “I nearly died” dialogue needs to stop. You both need to move on from it. And have a look at my previous post on bringing him to the hospital cafe etc etc

Hi OP, I was in a similar position to you a couple of years ago. Have nursery involved the council SEN team? My boy was observed in nursery by them and nursery were given funding to allow more 1:1 hours, they were also given strategies by the behaviour support team.

During any particularly high anxiety days they would call me and ask if I wanted to speak to my son which I did and it helped him calm down. We also had a mummy box at nursery. It was kept in the office and had things like a scarf I had worn and smelt of me, pictures of us together, a little toy from home, bubbles and little bits that helped him calm down and focus. As he would be leading up to a meltdown he would visit the Office to see the manager (she was fab and DS loved her to bits) and he would have some quiet time looking at the things in the box. Five or ten minutes and he’s be ready to go back into the busy room again.

Things like drawing a little heard on each of your hands in the morning and filling them with kisses, that way you can have kisses from each other all day, leaving something half done (like a jigsaw) at home in the morning so you can finish it when you get home helps to reiterate you are coming back and he will be coming home again.

I battled with nursery for about a year then a new manager arrived and it was like a breath of fresh air, she got it and wanted to work with me on reducing his anxiety and recognising triggers and how best to handle them.

You need nursery on board with this, it makes everything far easier for our little ones x x x

I'm happy for him to have play therapy. I don't feel I need counselling but have asked if I can have EDMR because I wake up at night feeling anxious and certain sights make me feel uneasy because they remind me of it. In the day to day I feel fine it's only really at night that it bothers me.

‘I asked if they'd create a sensory den as DS1 usually tries to hide when upset and the room is open plan, meaning the other kids crowd round him and he then ends up hitting them because he wants to be on his own.’

Will other children have to be kept away from the den when he is in it?

@Seline there is not one person on this earth who wouldn’t benefit from some counseling. Even if all you did was spoke of the situation with your son and the counseling showed you how to change your inner dialogue (and therefore outer) with your son. And you could deal with this whole situation more positively

They said the den will be one at a time.

You I don't really enjoy talking about it I would rather just move on. I think dwelling on it would make it worse?

Op it's very, very clear that he needs therapy. You are trying to go around the issue which isnt going to help him in the future especially when hes anxious. I say this as my ds is 2.5 and having some OT which helping alot with his anxiety. He needs to work through it and have the correct tools to deal with other situations.
The nursery is correct in not allowing this. It would also be very unfair on the other children.

But your not moving on that’s the thing.

It took me a long time to realise I needed counselling. But actually the reason it helped so much is because I am normally a bottler so getting it out helped to clear thoughts. I have never in my life talked non stop, about myself, for an hour but this gave me a safe space to do so

As well as helping me me dealing with my issues also massively helps ds as I am in a much better position for actually dealing with things.

Putting ASD and ADHD aside I had similar behavioural issues with my DD. She was 4.5 yrs old when her brother was born and up until then was the perfect child. Never a tantrum and really laid back.

DS was born premature and we spent a few months in the SCBU so her life was all a bit out of sorts as we spent the majority of our time in there and she was really worried about DS. He turned out to have health problems (genetic and unrelated to his early birth) and we have spent a lot of time in hospital both admitted and for appointments since. Her behaviour has gone downhill, she lashes out, tries to hurt her brother, attacks me, school have mentioned it there but in her case I am almost certain she doesn't has SEN. I mentioned it to my DS's consultant and they referred us to the psychologist at the hospital and we are already seeing some improvement.

After her first appointment the psychologist said it was like PTSD and had left her with severe anxiety surrounding health. I know your situation is slightly different but just to say a lot of his behaviour could be related to this and that talking it through could really help.

Reading this, makes me so grateful about what my ds's nursery manager did for him.
He was a complete selective mute during nursery. My ds's nursery manager become his key worker herself, and looked after him personally every day. He had an issue with eating, so she even sat with him at lunch time to encourage him to eat every single day.