To think my autistic child should be allowed to contact me?

[Seline]

Son is 3 and being assessed for autism. Told it's likely he will be diagnosed and that they're also considering ADHD. He very obviously has both. I have fairly "bad" ADHD myself so I know exactly what it is.

Recently he's been having major meltdowns and outbursts of aggression at nursery. Throwing things, biting, kicking etc. He's speech delayed so can't communicate properly and often the other, older and more articulate children talk over him. The staffing ratio is 1 to 8 which is crap, I have barely any of these issues at home because I can see and intervene before we get to meltdown but they have too many children to do that.

Anyway my son is doing this because he is anxious. I nearly died and spent a lot of time in hospital and this is when his behaviour suddenly went like this. He keeps telling me he is scared I will leave him

I have told him he can speak to me whenever he wants and asked nursery to call me if he is distressed and let me talk him down. Firstly they told me no because it'll upset the other children, I said I think getting bitten will upset them more. Then they said the office phone is always too busy so they don't want him getting upset over not being able to use the phone.

I offered to buy a mobile phone and give to his key worker and that only I have the number to, and that they can tell him is a phone to mummy and to use that.

Got told no as that would take the key worker away from other children. I said but you're already away from them by spending half an hour calming his meltdowns down!

Asked if I could keep it in the office and one of the admin ladies could call me from it and supervise. Told no as their admin work is very important

This isn't fair is it?! They should be making reasonable adjustments.

really hard situation for you OP but a phone is not the answer.

If a ratio of 8 to 1 (which is standard in a pre school setting) is not suitable then he needs more 1 2 1 care.

If that is the ratio they have then it sounds like they are not able to give him the support he needs - both my kids were in a pre school with 8 to 1 and if one adult has to go off to deal with something that changes the ratio for others.

Could you keep him off nursery until he gets diagnosed and can get one to one care?

I work in a nursery. There’s absolutely no way we would do this.

What you need to do is work with staff on strategies on calming him down and understanding him better.

We absolutely could not have a child calling their parent, even a child with an echp. It’s just not a practical solution, nor is it beneficial in the long run. The staff need to be able to help your child in a different way and if you don’t feel they can do that, as you’re suggesting, you should probably take him out.

childmind.org/article/problem-behavior-in-preschoolers-2/

Something like this maybe?

Possibly. He panics whenever I go to the doctors now I have to tell him it's something else. And whenever he gets a knock he cries and asks me if he needs a doctor.

He was always a handful as in energetic and unique but the aggression only started when I was in hospital. It was awful for him he was staying at my mother's because I was unwell and I got ambulanced away and didn't come out for weeks.

To offer more practical solutions, they could try photographs from home, a comfort item, a favourite story you read with him or a photograph album that moves between home and nursery with him containing pictures of favourite people and toys.

The issue with keeping him off altogether is me and his siblings have loads of medical appointments. It was waters breaking at 25 weeks followed by all sorts of complications so as you can imagine we have lots of appointments.

If I take him to a hospital it'll make it worse

Does he have an EHC? If not, apply yourself. My youngest got one easily while in Nursery, I'm having to fight for my older sons to get one. If the Nursery are having probelms with him they should be contacting the SEN team at the council for support.

Mildly distressed toddler isn't the same as meltdowns in autism and ADHD.

I didn't say they were the same, just that by allowing you the phone calls it sets a precedent. Which others then may argue they should also be allowed, rather than allowing parents and the nursery to find other more suitable solutions to the situation.

How do you prepare him at home?
Could you begin a tradition in the morning of the same speech word for word?

We are going to go to xxx to see xxx I will be coming home and then coming to pick you up at 3pm today where we will walk home and have some tea

I agree with the nursery that calling you isn’t practical.

Have you applied for an EHCP? At the moment I would either remove him from the nursery as he’s unhappy or only send him in when he has his 1-1 time.

The issue with keeping him off altogether is me and his siblings have loads of medical appointments.

I don't t want to sound harsh, but that isn't a reason to keep him in nursery when he is clearly distressed. If you can balance the reason for him attending with the benefit he gets, fair enough, but you are putting him in because of practical reasons, not his needs.

I would take him out. He has plenty time to develop strategies for this, it doesn't have to be now.

He doesn't have one yet.

I tell him at night "you are going to see x at nursery tomorrow and mummy is at home with baby x and baby y. Mummy will pick you up with nana"

I say the same in the morning. He goes in fine but then he starts being difficult. They don't handle it well though to be honest. I've got a meeting later to discuss it.

Bryjam But if I take him into a hospital he will have a panic attack. That's my worry. He'd be better having fun with his friends than being in the situation he is afraid of.

Yabu for them to call..

Whether you like it or not, the other children will realise that he gets to speak to mum and it will set of all the children who have Seperation anxiety and that's not fair on them.

You have 2 options;

Keep him at home until you have a diagnosis and then find an appropriate SEN setting for him.

You find more realistic ways of helping him in his current setting with a home box (stuff from home to help him)

I am sorry, that sounds awful. This is such a minefield. It does sound as if your DS needs more support than he is getting, he may need more intensive supervision around other children.

He attacks people with bites and throwing objects.

Well yes, if has autism or other major communication issues that can happen.

They make it worse by how they handle it.

But a mainstream nursery with those staffing levels are probably not in a position to do much better.

Got told no as that would take the key worker away from other children. I said but you're already away from them by spending half an hour calming his meltdowns down!

Thing is, in the long run they probably can't afford to do that either in the long run and if they can't find strategies that work with the resources they have they may need to ask for funding for some more intensive support, or they may not be able to keep him. If he gets a diagnosis then they may be better able to get support. But budgets are tight and there are no guarantees. And if possible I would avoid taking him out of nursery. It's actually better for them to exclude him because that starts the evidence trail that says he needs support in future when he starts school.

I hope you all manage to come up a solution that works for your DS.

The fact you have lot of medical appointments to attend links back to my very first post

What happens if you're not able to take the call?

If can't interrupt a medical appointment to take a call from your DS then surely that will further increase his anxiety, and escalate behaviour at nursery as he will panic that you're not answering the phone.

Does he know what time you'll be picking him up? My autistic DS always has to know and in a way he can monitor. So for example, a clock with pick up time marked on or time that he can see running down.

I do think the phone calls would be logistically too difficult for the nursery to manage. How about working through his separation anxiety outside of nursery? Do you have family you could leave him with and call him? I would think about reducing his hours if possible as it's not a good idea for him to spend so long in an anxious state. At 3he does need social time but not all day.

Will going to hospital make it worse or will it make him less scared of it. Try watching Get Well Soon Hospital on Cbeebies to take the scaryness out of them. Or there are a couple of Topsy and Tims where Topsy has her appendix out.

I have a 4 year old currently obsessed with hospitals as my Grandma went into one and sadly passed away, she went to visit her just before she died and it wasn't scary but that is her last memory of going to a hospital so we have watched a number of things about hospitals that have flipped that thought. I get lots of questions about ambulances and hospitals and death which is tough to deal with but I talk it through with her.

that should be 'or a timer he can see running down'

You don't sound like you have a lot of faith in the nursery staff. You are also expecting too much of them, and that's coming from a parent of an autistic child and someone who has worked in a nursery for many, many years. The mobile phone is not possible. There was a nursery who ofsted tried to close because they used a mobile phone as their office phone. I can't imagine any nursery willing to risk that. Try and work with them, and 8:1 ratio is the legal requirement for 3 year olds. If you think that it's crap blame the government, not the nursery.

But if I take him into a hospital he will have a panic attack. That's my worry. He'd be better having fun with his friends than being in the situation he is afraid of.

But he isn't having fun with his friends. The whole point of your thread is about how awfully he copes in nursery.

I can sense you’ve absolutely got your hands full but YABVU to expect to be able to call/speak to your son whenever he has a meltdown.

YANVU to say the nursery are not fulfilling their obligations when your son hasn’t been diagnosed.

And YABVU to dump your son in a nursery he’s not comfortable at just because you have hospital appointments for your other children.
As the PP said, you have two choices: pull him out until you get that statement and your poor DS gets the support he needs, or come up with a strategy to help him stay. You were super unreasonable to promise your son he could speak to you at anytime without having that agreement in place with the care provider.
I feel for you, I really do, but your anger is misguided.

I would be able to take calls in most settings, even in appointments it's rare I'm in an MRI scanner or anything. Plus my mother who is retired offered to be the second contact if there was absolutely no way I could answer. He is very close to both of us.

Yea he does know what time we are picking him up but a mark on the clock could work. I'll try that.

He only goes three days a week.

No ideas re nursery but in terms of him having meltdowns that are hospital-related had you thought about making trips to the hospital that don't involve appointments just so that he can see it's not so scary? Maybe explain that you're going to walk round the grounds and go home, then another time go into reception and then home, maybe progress to a drink & a biscuit in the cafe? Do it in baby steps so that he can see gradually that it's not all about scary appointments for everyone.