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Original poster

To think everyone saying Shamima Begum should rot in Syria have completely overlooked the fact that she is pregnant

999 replies

StepAwayFromGoogle · 14/02/2019 13:39

Just that really. She did a terrible thing going to Syria to marry an ISIS fighter. But she was only 15 and probably incredibly naive. She has already lost two children, one as a complication of malnutrition. And the child she is pregnant with has done nothing wrong. Surely we shouldn't leave him or her there to die too?

OP posts:
SmileEachDay · 21/02/2019 15:42

I agree completely brass

hoodathunkit · 21/02/2019 15:45

I get exactly the same vibe off her as I do some of the girls at my school. Her truculence and inarticulate answers. Her “it’s not fair” and “but it’s not just me”. Even her “yeah I’m not even bothered”. It’s as though her emotional development has been arrested.

Upon initial viewing of the interview my impression was similar to yours, a kind of Islamist Vicky Pollard.

Having given this further thought and considered situations I have been in personally I am inclined to withhold judgement.

On several occasions I have been in the company of predators and criminals and feigned approval of their actions. On some occasions it has been to protect myself from physical harm and on other occasions it has been to encourage them to talk so that I could gain insight into their mindset.

I have no sympathy for even a teenage / minor person who who is attracted by atrocities to the extent that they travel to Syria to support an army of monsters.

However it is unrealistic to expect a teenager who is surrounded by said monsters and very aware of their love of beheadings, rapes and torture, to express disapproval of them until she is in such place as to be safe from retribution.

Her ex husband was (if my memory is correct) killed by daesh following suspicion that he was passing information to their enemies. It is easy to understand how she would wish to avoid the same fate, especially as deaths of alleged traitors to the cause tend to involve torture and prolonged suffering.

Possibly one of the strongest arguments for detaining her in the UK is to discover what she may feel inclined to disclose once she feels free to talk without fearing that she will have her head cut off / be burned alive etc.

hoodathunkit · 21/02/2019 15:47

wot brass said

with bells on

SmileEachDay · 21/02/2019 15:50

Yep hood I think that’s fair to say.

She’s an A grade student (if you believe the meedja) and is certainly not presenting as one.

Alsohuman · 21/02/2019 16:02

Have I got this wrong, then? I thought her husband was still alive, she was talking about going to Holland and waiting for him to come out of prison.

brassbrass · 21/02/2019 16:12

I think he is still alive, he surrendered to another group of fighters and is being held in another camp

Motherofcreek · 21/02/2019 16:23

Totally agree brass and hood

Puzzledandpissedoff · 21/02/2019 16:24

Her husband was tortured by IS for 6 months

And the evidence for this is ... ?

brassbrass · 21/02/2019 16:32

If you just want to go to the husband bit it's around 2.15

There's a written article by the same journalist I think which mentions it. Did somebody already link to that?

Xenia · 21/02/2019 16:34

I don't think we need her "useful" information but if we do surely we can just send a spy to the camp to get the information from her there.

brassbrass · 21/02/2019 16:41

www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/shamima-begum-isis-bride

This interview is with the Times journalist who found her. Mentions the 6 months bit

Alsohuman · 21/02/2019 16:44

Course we could @Xenia, because they’d all be queuing up at the Foreign Office to volunteer for that gig. I don’t think we could trust her to tell the truth in any case. My gut’s telling me this whole debacle has been carefully orchestrated, i’m having trouble working out why, though.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 21/02/2019 16:45

I don't think we need her "useful" information but if we do surely we can just send a spy to the camp to get the information from her there

I think that might be a smidge difficult

hoodathunkit · 21/02/2019 16:55

@ Xenia

I think that part of the problem is that lots of people who are not spies are being executed as spies. Spying against daesh is incredibly dangerous and it is not at all simple to just "send spies" to Syria.

Like many cults and criminal groups daesh is turning in itself and people who believe in the caliphate can end up being accused of being a spy, tortured and executed, even if they have never spied or been involved in spying.

The same thing happened under Pol Pot, Hitler all kinds of oppressive regimes.

Shamnia mentioned corruption in her interview. This will have placed her in immense danger given the paranoia that is engulfing daesh at the moment.

The fact is that a lot of the religious motivation behind daesh masks a money making criminal enterprise. For every priceless antiquity that is destroyed because it is considered haram thousands more are looted and sold on the black market.

I think that, if she was handled properly she could become an asset to the UK. If she talks about corruption in the situation that she finds herself in then her further thoughts about disillusion with daesh might prove valuable ammunition to counter further radicalisation.

It may be that She’s an A grade student (if you believe the meedja) and is certainly not presenting as one.

insightful and important observation SmileEachDay

SmileEachDay · 21/02/2019 16:55

I think that might be a smidge difficult

Masterful understatement there Rufus

woodhill · 21/02/2019 16:58

It's like the Tudor court or not unlike the Taliban.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 21/02/2019 17:03

Yes, I know Shamima said her husband had been "tortured for 6 months", but I wouldn't automatically take her word for it since this is hearsay

That's why I asked if there's any actual evidence

brassbrass · 21/02/2019 17:07

It will be difficult to get actual evidence without someone actually investigating it.

I wonder how this will play out in the coming weeks..

hoodathunkit · 21/02/2019 17:14

Alsohuman

I am also wondering just quite what is going on - there is something that is not quite right, I just have no idea what

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 21/02/2019 18:24

smile

I was going to say 'a tad difficult' but i felt that might be too over the top

BejamNostalgia · 21/02/2019 18:36

I think that, if she was handled properly she could become an asset to the UK. If she talks about corruption in the situation that she finds herself in then her further thoughts about disillusion with daesh might prove valuable ammunition to counter further radicalisation.

Are you for real? She’s not even renounced ISIS, says she had a good time there and has no regrets. And you think she’s an assets?

Very good, I will go and tell my children they should stop studying for useful skills and obeying the law, because if they really want to be an asset to their country they should go off and do a bit of genocide.

Because clearly nobody in the UK could possibly think that genocide was a bad idea unless someone whose already done it tells them.Hmm

Motherofcreek · 21/02/2019 18:43

By facebook feed is full of ridiculous memes with her in.

I too had a knee jerk reaction to it at first but a small part of me thinks there is more to this. She is still surrounded by Isis members so no wonder she isn't rejecting it as that could mean death for her or her baby.

I think if she manages to reach a consulate she should be allowed home. I think she should face prison for a very long time.

Gth1234 · 21/02/2019 20:13

Why are we being drip fed all this nonsense. Just slip a d notice on it. Starve her of airtime. Could snowflakes handle that?

Justanotherlurker · 21/02/2019 20:52

I too had a knee jerk reaction to it at first but a small part of me thinks there is more to this. She is still surrounded by Isis members so no wonder she isn't rejecting it as that could mean death for her or her baby

Could be the last line of defence being captured and the known dissipation tactic of ISIS, Canada, Germany and US are all facing this difficulty

Or we could try the sexism, racist, hiding brexit route and pretend 80% of the population are racists

Motherofcreek · 21/02/2019 21:13

I'm no snowflake.

I don't like the tv apperences - that's the media abusing the situation.

I wouldn't be fussed if she never appeared on tv again.