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Original poster

To think everyone saying Shamima Begum should rot in Syria have completely overlooked the fact that she is pregnant

999 replies

StepAwayFromGoogle · 14/02/2019 13:39

Just that really. She did a terrible thing going to Syria to marry an ISIS fighter. But she was only 15 and probably incredibly naive. She has already lost two children, one as a complication of malnutrition. And the child she is pregnant with has done nothing wrong. Surely we shouldn't leave him or her there to die too?

OP posts:
Xenia · 21/02/2019 13:54

I don't report attacks on me either but I do agree that it is better to stop arguments being person and I can understand BR's point of view even though I do not agree with it on this issue.

I can also take a utilitarian approach to this issue too - the UK cannot solve every problem on the planet so why bring her back here and waste a small fortune when we could spend the money on something else.

We can palm her off on Bangladesh if we want to.

We are wasting massive of money on Bangladesh even £500,000 from the UK just to fund a TV show for them which is hardly aid for the starving - www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9669203/Foreign-aid-budget-spent-on-Question-Time-for-Bangladesh.html They can use some of the money on this lady if she is ever released by Syria and does not go to Holland.

hoodathunkit · 21/02/2019 13:56

I can understand the anger about Begum appearing entitled and unapologetic in the news reports but I do not understand the argument about tax payers money being spent on keeping her here if she is in a secure unit of some kind.

While these places are definitely expensive to run the costs of them are insignificant compared to the financial, emotional and political impact should she make use of her narcisistic tendencies and 15 minutes of fame to evolve into a Samatha Brewthwaite type character.

I think that anyone returning here in similar circumstances should be subjected to the same treatment, that is to say contained until such point as to be no longer considered to be a danger to the public.

We will never learn anything about radicalisation unless we find ways to understand the minds of people who have been radicalised and discover ways to either de-radicalise them or keep them safely contained where the damage they can inflict is limited or prevented.

hoodathunkit · 21/02/2019 13:58

Samantha Lewthwaite not Brewthwaite

brassbrass · 21/02/2019 14:00

Thanks for that link Time

SingleMumFighting · 21/02/2019 14:01

Thank you for answering my question. Honestly this is all new to me!

SmileEachDay · 21/02/2019 14:01

gusset

“Let them all come”. Which then did you not want here? Forgetting for a minute the fact SB was born in London, which them do you think should not be here? Bangladeshi? Polish? Somali? French? Syrian?

mrsglowglow · 21/02/2019 14:02

www.fbu.org.uk/news/2019/02/20/government-%E2%80%9Csneaks-through%E2%80%9D-15-cut-fire-service

Meanwhile, whilst we are all wrapped up in this individual look what's happening without any fuss...

MadCatEnthusiast · 21/02/2019 14:10

*I can also take a utilitarian approach to this issue too - the UK cannot solve every problem on the planet so why bring her back here and waste a small fortune when we could spend the money on something else.

We can palm her off on Bangladesh if we want to.*

Bangladesh do not want her and have told the media that she was never a Bangladeshi citizen despite what Bangladeshi nationality says but clearly, she probably didn't meet other requirements. So it's not that simple.

And it's not the case of solving other countries problems. She was born and raised in the UK. She speaks English with no foreign accent and supposedly her Bengali isn't good, she went to school in London. Her school neglected to tell her parents about the other Shameerma Begum who went to Syria. The counter-terrorist police knew of her and her radicalisation.

Come on now, the UK have to take the blame for this for happening under our noses. She was 15 when she left, even if she did commit any crime in the UK like murdering, she'd not even be tried as an adult because she wasn't.

Frankly, revoking her citizenship is the real money burner because the family are appealing it. Guess who gets the court bill?

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 21/02/2019 14:12

I'm not sure it's fair on Bangladesh for the UK to try and palm her off onto them

Yep

Dunno what bangladesh has done to upset the government

SmileEachDay · 21/02/2019 14:16

The idea that any other nation should take responsibility for SB is...i don’t know...it’s like the ultimate NIMBY syndrome.

She is a young person, born in Bethnal Green, who the authorities here failed to safeguard. She may or may not have directly committed crimes - (we’ll never know if we don’t bring her back) How is that any other nations responsibility?

Italiangreyhound · 21/02/2019 14:25

Radio 4 play just started about a teenage girl coming back from Isis. I think it was first broadcast in 2017.

Dapplegrey · 21/02/2019 14:40

wanting justice for someone is not being sympathetic

Bertrand the Guardian said compassion should be shown. Is that not showing sympathy?

OhDearGodLookAtThisMess · 21/02/2019 14:43

Her school neglected to tell her parents about the other Shameerma Begum who went to Syria.

Well, they sent a letter, but it was intercepted and destroyed by Shamima herself. She is responsible for that.

brassbrass · 21/02/2019 14:46

but it was intercepted and destroyed by Shamima herself

It wasn't intercepted it was given directly to the school girls rather than their parents. Of course the girls hid the letters. How stupid were the police not to speak to the parents directly!!

BertrandRussell · 21/02/2019 14:46

Compassion and sympathy are two completely different things. I think all people should be treated with compassion, even those for whom I have no sympathy.

SmileEachDay · 21/02/2019 14:47

Well, they sent a letter, but it was intercepted and destroyed by Shamima herself. She is responsible for that

The letters were given to the children at school. The letter was not “intercepted”. That is an appalling failure in safeguarding.

OhDearGodLookAtThisMess · 21/02/2019 14:50

It is, or rather was, fairly standard procedure to send letters to parents via students themselves. It would have been addressed to her parents. Therefore she intercepted it.
4 years on, and maybe practices have changed, although those who are determined to pass blame away from the girls themselves will always find someone to use as a scapegoat.

Budsbegginingspringinsight · 21/02/2019 14:52

I'm not attacking Bertrand... I'm just wondering if she remembers a post a long time ago she started asking about what Isis was about. Many posters tried to help as per op, and as I recall... not much interest was taken by the op...

The posts on here triggered my memory as I was reading through. On other hand maybe I am wrong, maybe it was a different poster. It just seems too fit with the other posters frustration with this particular poster who seemingly cannot understand why anyone may see her as they do.

As I said too bejam sp. I don't know about Bertrand Russell but what she's describing is why I'm terrified of people like Corbyn.

Because they have been brain washed and they only see things through the glasses of political ideology.

SmileEachDay · 21/02/2019 14:53

Ohdear

It’s not standard procedure when it’s around a significant safeguarding issue.

And ffs it’s not about scapegoats it’s about looking at what happened and trying to make sure a) everyone is safe b) justice is served and c) it doesn’t happen again!

brassbrass · 21/02/2019 15:01

fairly standard procedure to send letters to parents via students themselves. It would have been addressed to her parents.

If that's your limit on counter terrorist measures you're not going to get very far are you 😂 but thanks for making me laugh on this otherwise grim thread.

Police: We're worried Osama is in contact with a radical group who will groom him into carrying out atrocities, I know let's write a letter to his parents but we'll give it to Osama to give to them

hahahahahaha oh boy and just realised it's half term

CameliaCamelia · 21/02/2019 15:15

Well yes, ok, you are right.....3 posters pointed out she could be useful and give information

I see that now, it's worth a try, we could learn from her. It's happened before etc.

I don't know, I just don't get that vibe off her. But she's young and could potentially turn herself around a bit. Agh I'm torn a bit now!!

BertrandRussell · 21/02/2019 15:19

@Budsbegginingspringinsight I realise this is self indulgent of me-but could you tell me wht i’ve SIs on this thread that makes you think I have been brainwashed and can only see things through the glasses of political ideology?

SmileEachDay · 21/02/2019 15:25

just don't get that vibe off her

I get exactly the same vibe off her as I do some of the girls at my school. Her truculence and inarticulate answers. Her “it’s not fair” and “but it’s not just me”. Even her “yeah I’m not even bothered”. It’s as though her emotional development has been arrested.

shpoot · 21/02/2019 15:28

Haven't RTFT but no, I haven't overlooked that fact. I just don't care as long as she's not allowed back here. Evil

brassbrass · 21/02/2019 15:40

It's a tonne of PTSD, being post partum and being in a camp with IS members talking. She's not clever enough to navigate this. I expect the camp commandants are known, ever present and feared as much as they were in the caliphate. Get her away from there and get her talking. Her husband was tortured by IS for 6 months I don't think it would take much for the counter terrorist specialists to get what they need.