To think everyone saying Shamima Begum should rot in Syria have completely overlooked the fact that she is pregnant

[StepAwayFromGoogle]

Just that really. She did a terrible thing going to Syria to marry an ISIS fighter. But she was only 15 and probably incredibly naive. She has already lost two children, one as a complication of malnutrition. And the child she is pregnant with has done nothing wrong. Surely we shouldn't leave him or her there to die too?

Yes I'm surprised people keep saying she has shown no remorse. She is in Syria surrounded by no doubt Isis supporters she of course will have to watch what she says.

Every other jihadi I've seen being interviewed has claimed they did nothing, saw nothing, didn't know what it was like before they went, wanted to go home as soon as they got there blah blah blah. They're not in terror of what will happen to them.

She certainly doesn’t look or present as terrified, in fact her apparent lack of emotion is quite chilling. Something tells me she’s being used to manipulate us but I can’t for the life of me work out why.

were a right wing extremist who supported racisl cleansing. They’d be baying for her blood.

Exactly. She's no different to members of the KKK. De-humanise anyone who doesn't belong to your group and it's OK to do anything to them - lynchings, burnings, rapes, gas-chambers.

she were a right wing extremist who supported racisl cleansing maybe not right wing but she did actually belong to a group who were doing just that. What some of you are repeatedly refusing to understand is that no one on this thread feels sorry for her but some aren't prepared to go all medieval either and are rationally questioning what revoking her citizenship will achieve (other than passifying the lynch mob) in the bigger picture as we still have a terrorist problem and lots of inconsistent policies and politicians. If the HC has got it right in revoking HER citizenship then he's got it Very Very wrong in not revoking the citizenship of the others who are already back! If the decision was made to let them back in assuming there was a plan to deal with them then why does that not apply to SB? She is lots of ugly horrible things but hardly a criminal mastermind. I feel more worried that more dangerous people have come back without all this hoohah and the HC hasn't been made accountable.

“don’t think the Guardian or indeed some posters on here would be at all sympathetic if she were a right wing extremist who supported racisl cleansing. They’d be baying for her blood”

1. wanting justice for someone is not being sympathetic
2. Baying for the blood of anyone is not civilised behaviour. I might go so far as calling it virtue signalling. “Look at me-I’m angrier than ^anyone else!!* So much easier than thinking.

The difference for me is that any others that have returned have done it in exactly the way you’d expect - quietly, discreetly, under the radar. This is the complete opposite of that, a huge amount of international attention has been drawn to this woman. Surely I’m not alone in wondering why and smelling a rat?

Alsohuman interesting point there

C’mon, Bertrand, you accusing others of virtue signalling is the epitome of the kettle calling the pot black.

Doesn’t mean the pot isn’t black though.....

Does make you a bit of a hypocrite though, don’t you think?

“Does make you a bit of a hypocrite though, don’t you think?”
No.

My views are unpopular on this thread-mostly, frankly, because some people are making stuff up about me. But I will not join in with the prison van thumping competitive outrage. It is uncivilised, distasteful and unhelpful. And the definition of virtue signalling.

The treatment you’ve had on this thread has been pretty dire. I don’t agree with your views but would, along with Voltaire, absolutely agree you have every right to express them. But accusing other people of virtue signalling when you’ve written numerous posts doing exactly that really is a bit rich.

everyone seems to fall back onto the 'virtue signalling' accusation these days

It's so dull and predictable

I'd like to know why we can't leave her where she is?

Dapple... Isis did commit genocide, they tried too wipe out yadizi... remember them stuck on that mountain.... mass graves have been found.

They also tried to wipe out homosexuals they're as right wing as you can get!!

I think the home office have done the right thing even if they are forced to reverse the decision because she will be rendered stateless (not having Bangladeshi citizenship)... it still sends the right message. Shouldn’t be protected because she has a child / is pregnant. Sad fate for them.

Hoodathunkit

Excellent post.
I'd just like to point out no cult has been this scary, destructive and out of control.
Maybe we all got desensitised seeing men in orange on their knees about to be murdered ....

Remember in ww2 the total disbelief that actual camps were set up to murder Jews, gypsies etc.our boundaries have perhaps been lowered because we've got instant access information.

Imagine if all the horror's were only coming out right now,now caliphate is nothing?

It's like we've seen the horror and moved on.

Although some posters, people seem too have privileged gentle lives... ensconced in lovely houses surrounded by fields, listening too the archers and reading the guardian ...

Why would Begum not be her last name? It is not her married name, granted (is her marriage legal and does she have to take her husband's last name?)- but it is the name she has when she left this country for Syria.

My understanding is that Begum is an honorific for a married woman-and a very respectful one- not a last name.

I agree with everything brassbrass just said

MrsMaisel

You may be correct.

It is important to send a message and Begum's apparent sense of entitlement and shock at having her UK citizenship withdrawn does send a message to would be daesh wives that should you join this merry band of rapists, traffickers and murderers you should not expect to be welcomed back with open arms.

Having said that I really do think that the best place for Begum is within a secure unit in the UK so that she does not become the next Samantha Lewthwaite

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samantha_Lewthwaite

Damage limitation and the protection of innocents has to be our first priority here.

Also re de-radicalisation

I am not an expert or authority on this subject however I have studied cults, brainwashing, hypnotism and psychology fairly intensively.

As a trafficking survivor studying these subjects has helped me to stay sane, well relatively sane at least, I have my moments of extreme vulnerability like anyone else who has experienced what I have endured.

I do not believe that de-radicalisation is a quick process. It does not involve simply being sympathetic and offering someone cups of tea and cake.

Given the rage and fury directed towards Begum, something that has surprised her, there is a very real risk that she will be pushed further into the clutches of criminals and terrorists.

It is human nature to ally oneself with people who will be supportive of you at times of stress.

I think it is correct that, until this woman is in a safe place we should take what she says with a pinch of salt. If she did condemn daesh to a news reporter and then ended up alone in Syria her life wouldn't be worth living.

I watched a horrifying documentary recently about a man who was violently abused by his partner and when the neighbours called the police he repeatedly claimed that everything was fine even though he was obviously injured. This is sadly a typical situation for people who have suffered appalling abuse or who are at risk of abuse.

The more I think about this case the more I hope that Begum can be placed in a secure unit in the UK until such time as she no longer poses a danger to innocent people.

The protection of the innocent has to be our priority and the risk of her becoming a Samantha Lewthwaite type figure is simply too much of a risk to take.

@bejamnostalgia 16.04

Wow.

This is everything that terrifies me about Corbyn.

Don't know about Bertrand Russell but your spot on there about the twisting of truth for mad people who are just solely entrenched in warped political ideology.

The worst of it Is,the blindness...they think their kind whilst throwing millions under the bus for the greater cause.

Just like Stalin did.

Wish that post could be put somewhere too refer back too re politically induced blindness.

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/02/the-shame-of-those-siding-with-shamima-begum/
This article sums up my feelings on the subject.

Actually I do remember Bertrand Russell asking once for help understanding Isis, it's aims, hopes dreams and point.

Some intelligent and informed poster's tried too help her understand, the background of Saudi, whabbism...the spread of ideas for year's Etc before all this.

Bertrand if you remember that thread perhaps you could enlighten us on what you learned. As far I remember ... you didn't seem to keen on the results?

Lay off, this thread’s not about @Bertrand. It’s turning into bullying and taking advantage of her refusal to report.

Also just report then even if the poster doesn't themselves? I'm sure they can fight their own battles.