AIBU to think clothes can be distracting?

[angelicaorchnid]

My dd is taking some extra GCSEs she can't take at school at another school in May,

She received a letter with information about where to go on the days etc. In it they say to make sure they wear not 'outrageous' clothing. Because their boys are normal and get distracted easily (it's a boys school).

Dd thinks this isn't right, and 'girls bodies shouldn't be seen as objects of distraction for boys', I don't agree, I think it's reasonable for them to stipulate what to wear. Dd says she agrees but they could've done it without saying they were distracting, and boys should be able to control themselves.

AIBU? i'm not sure if i'm just old school and not with what's appropriate now!

you misunderstand me, PB. Given what the shops stock, it's quite an ask to expect girls to have to navigate their way through what is 'inappropriate'. Girls can't just shop for clothes in the way boys can, they've got an additional level to get through.

Basically, they have to learn that society will judge what they wear from day fucking one. And I'm starting to get very angry about that.

I think you're being deliberately obtuse, Blue. There will be a lot of clothes in the average H&M that someone, somewhere, will deem inappropriate. It's entirely subjective. But girls apparently have to understand that, from, what, age 10,11, when they first might shop for themselves?

They've got to riffle through the racks and be able to judge whether or not it's appropriate according to - well, anyone. Boys don't have to do that.

Then they should have spent the intervening year instructing their pupils on how a girl's clothing is not something for them to get distracted by, and a few other useful life lessons while they were at it.

But, it's not emtirely about boys getting distracted by a low cut top and short skirt. It could be to do with that since it's a school full of hormonal teenage boys but not exclusively.

Like I said before, it's about the disruption caused at the start of the exam. If the exam officer has to deal with an external candidate who has ignored the school's exam rules then it's more than likely going to happen in the exam hall, therefore it's going to distract their students' focus.

Perhaps last year they had issues with some female external candidates dressing inappropriately and it caused a fuss at the start of the exam. Because of this they may have had some of their students saying it affected their focus and so this year the exam officer has tried to be more direct in the hope of preventing that happening. Unfortunately, as the exam officer is a teacher at a single sex school they can sometimes - from personal experience of a single sex school - struggle to pitch the right tone when talking to a mixed/opposite gender group that they don't teach.

girls are expected to shop for their clothing in some kind of vacuum, completely ignoring what the shops are full of.

I disagree. It's about knowing what is appropriate clothing for the situation.

Just because the shops are full of crop tops and short skirts doesn't mean that they are appropriate for all occasions and that you can wear them 100% of the time because "that's what's in the shops".
People tend to pick up on girl's clothes more because there is just so much more variety to female clothing than male options. This means that there are so many more ways for clothing to be inappropriate for the situation. I have a uniform dress code at work - we have to wear uniform tops and jackets but can wear any black trousers or skirt we like as long as it fits the dress code. If I turned up tomorrow in a short skirt that barely covered my arse or skinny black trousers that look painted on then I would be sent home as the dress code sets out the appropriate style and length of trousers/skirts and they are not in it. For male staff members there is one option - black trousers - and so their dress code is a lot more straightforward and unambiguous than the female one.

Also, when dealing with teenagers there will always be one or two who just try to push the boundaries a little too far so you need to be a lot more explicit with language. I went to a single sex school and there is no uniform for the sixth form but all students are still expected to dress appropriately. It used to be that "dress appropriately for school" was enough of a dress code but over the years it has had to become more extensive. This is because every time a new fashion trend came out students would try to find ways around the dress code to wear it ... so the school would have to become more explicit in their rules.

a short skirt or skintight trousers wouldn't be unacceptable where I work.

See what I mean about subjective? I bet in your place of work those clothes don't actually impact on your ability to do your job, it's just that someone somewhere along the line has decided that they're inappropriate.

You are expecting girls to navigate the subjective world of appropriate clothing. Maybe stop deciding that this, that or the other is inappropriate and let them get on with their work? As long as their clothing isn't unsafe (trailing sleeves for lab work, for example).

You are expecting girls to navigate the subjective world of appropriate clothing. Maybe stop deciding that this, that or the other is inappropriate and let them get on with their work?

Or provide a dress code that spells out what is appropriate for the specific job. The role I do requires a certain clothing standard that is partly appropriate clothing for the company image as I am customer facing but also practical - I frequently have to climb ladders to reach things in high shelves, a short skirt would mean the entire place could see my underwear- not exactly a professional image.

I used to work as a teacher abroad, there are no clothes that would impair my ability to teach (bar maybe mittens if they stopped me writing on the board) but I'm pretty sure most parents would not be happy if I turned up in high heels, booty shorts and a crop top to teach their children as while it isn't unsafe it is not appropriate to the work place.

Someone deems what's appropriate in every situation. How would your employer view you turning up in a bikini because it's a hot day, @River? Would that be appropriate?

A 10 or 11 year old girl clearly can't navigate the huge range of clothing on sale and choose what's appropriate, that's what parenting is for. From what you say, presumably you'd be happy for a 10 year old to wear sexualising clothing because the shops sell it? You might want to check your logic before you accuse me of being obtuse.

A 10 or 11 year old girl clearly can't navigate the huge range of clothing on sale and choose what's appropriate, that's what parenting is for.

My point exactly. When me and my wife go shopping with my stepdaughter, we don't stop her looking at anything but do make the ultimate decision on what we deem appropriate.

She knows what we expect and, if she were to go shopping and buy clothes that were overly sexualised, they would be returned.

but equally there's no actual valid reason why you couldn't teach in those clothes. Is there? When you actually think about it. It's just society saying that.

Some societies, past or present, would deem your work wardrobe inappropriate. Showing your ankles, sleeves about your elbow. It's society, nothing more, nothing less. Society wants to one the one hand dress girls in revealing clothes (or at least try to control what girls wear) and on the other tell them they can't wear those clothes, or blame all the ills of the world on them wearing those clothes.

(Actually, one thing that DD has learn from wearing her own clothes to school, is what is practical - so, for example, back when she used to wear tights and a skirt, she would know not to wear that if she had swimming because tights are a pain to get into if you're a bit damp and dressing in a hurry. Makes sense. But being told you can't wear a vest/sleeveless top when you're not doing anything more lethal than literacy, numeracy and a bit of RE? That doesn't make quite so much sense, does it?)

I understand fully about children learning what's appropriate but I am also angry that this is a much bigger hurdle for girls than boys. Hurdle's probably not the right word.

oh god. Look, put a boy in the boy's section of H&M - no parental input needed, or hardly any. Do the same for a girl? Not the same.

I'm out.

PB you think that a woman deciding not to take her husband's name is offensive to him and his family, so I really don't think we're on the same page, nor do I think you are a good person to be shopping with a 12 year old girl, on that basis.

Wtf? Where did changing your name come from? So would you go to work in a bikini @River? If not, why?

oh god. Look, put a boy in the boy's section of H&M - no parental input needed, or hardly any. Do the same for a girl? Not the same.

I don't think you can compare the two. There is a far wider range of clothing available for girls which is why there is more conversation/opinion around what is/isn't appropriate.

There will be times when parents deem certain items of boy's clothing inappropriate (I'm thinking mainly slogan t-shirts, that kind of thing) but by-and-large there's less to consider.

@Bluelady, it's from another thread where we disagreed on a different issue.

That aside, WHY am I not a good person to take my 12 year old stepdaughter shopping? Because I won't let her buy hotpants?

put a boy in the boy's section of H&M - no parental input needed, or hardly any. Do the same for a girl? Not the same.

No it isn't but not because of what us appropriate or not, just that boys clothes have such little variety that for general wear, most boys have the option of plain shirts; plain or logo tshirts and polos; jeans/joggers/trousers/shorts (all usually in black/grey/brown) and jumpers/jackets/hoodies.

For most boys they will have a "smart option" of shirt and trousers and then all the rest are varying degrees of casual. They also have to make decisions of appropriate clothing but since there is so much less choice than in the girls section it is a much easier decision.

Plus you've taken my opinion on that matter out of context. I'm very happy to debate that with you on the correct thread if you'd like but I do take offence at you using an (out of context) paraphased quote to basically say I'm a bad stepdad.