Misogynistic Teen Boys

[livinginaweirdworld]

I have name changed for this due to some outing details.

I work in an all boys school, these are very bright boys in a selective school. But the sexist and misogynistic words I hear coming from them even in year 7 and 8 absolutely astounds me.

I have spoken to them when I hear them speaking like this, but they literally dont give any fucks whatsoever.

I have done tutorials on these subjects, I have asked how they would feel if there mum or sister were spoken about like this and they still do not care.

I am talking about rape being banter (akin to the Warwick Uni students), calling a girl frigid as she wouldn't send nudes or give them a blow job. Saying they were going to dump a girl as she wouldn't take it up the arse. They also seem to think women in the workplace will always be inferior as they have to go off and make babies and leave the bosses and the men with the proper work.

The treat female members of staff with disdain and contempt. Admittedly some of them treat male members just as badly but nowhere near as many as the female staff.

Where is this attitude coming from? I would say a good 75% of the students here have this attitude. Not all of them can get that from poor parenting surely?

AIBU as a woman to want to take my 2 daughters and move to Mars to get away from this kind of society?

partners/mothers partners/wives

I haven't read the full thread, so apologies if I am repeating previous posts.

We need to continually call people (not just children) on their unacceptable attitudes.

Every month in our staff meeting, I end up calling someone out on inappropriate 'banter'. Usually male (often the same person).

Whilst it's not the type of stuff these youngsters are saying, it is still inappropriate, usually about people with special needs.

I abhor it and find it utterly depressing. I've told them repeatedly I'm going to continue to tackle them about it, in front of others.

Maybe, just maybe one day it will sink in. 😠

Grim and depressing ...

OP - you'd be doing a good thing to have a further conversation about this with the Head, if you can.

My best friend is a supply teacher, and to be honest, she's put me off every sending my children to a same sex schools. The top all girls schools can be good, but all-boys schools of all abilities are toxic (less good all girls schools have their own myriad of problems). There's faux-machismo of all sorts from teenage boys in all schools, but she's been in enough schools to say definitively that all boys schools are on a different level. It's real lord of the flies shit.

: ( at lord of the flies shit, good phrase though

When I visited an all boys private school I liked the speech the HT did on believing that boys there were better at choosing a myriad of activities - ie less stereotypical

Thought it sounded good but not if this stuff still goes on

Ds is at mixed in any case

“Boys play more physically than girls”

Why do you think that is? Because girls have a “sit nicely and do crafts”?

I was/am a very physical child. Stronger than most boys. I was constantly told to stop. Get down from the tree, it’s not ladylike. Sit down nicely. Stop fidgeting in class. Stop stop stop. Don’t play so rough, you’ll hurt little suzie.

What do you think i learned? To stop with the physical play.

Watch people. In cafe’s, in the park. Girls will be sat and chatted to, boys encouraged to run off and “burn some energy”.

I have an 8 year old girl with short hair. If she wears jeans and a jumper, and goes off to the park, she is praised for her bravery and physical daring. I am commiserated with for having such a handful, but told not to worry as “teenage boys are much easier than girls”.

If she wears pink, or a skirt, the comments change to be careful, asking boys to “mind out the little girls way”, don’t step in the puddle, where’s your mum, does she know you’re up there?

It absolutely is part of the problem. We are teaching boys to use physicality during social interactions, and girls not to. Girls learn to back down and stop if play becomes physical, and boys learn to “win” they just need to play a little rougher.

I distinctly remember a "boys only assembly without sitting" in my middle school where a very uncomfortable male teacher explained that "you are all going through changes as puberty hits but is it never appropriate to stare, comment or touch the girls in a sexual fashion just because their bodies are changing". This was in the late 70's. Sounds like we should get Mr Smith back doing a tour of schools ! ( sadly long dead I suspect )…

The problem we are facing has been decades in the making. The gradual erosion of social boundaries, the sexualisation of children, the erosion of parental responsibilities at the same time as methods of discipline in schools were watered down and because of parents being more inclined to blame the school than their little angels fear of punishment is almost non-existent. Music lyrics and videos have got gradually more misogynistic and explicit. Rap videos now seem to be literally a 4 minute tirade about "ho's and bitches, money, drugs" and all the other shite they spout. Social media and the pressure to be "insta-perfect" all the time. The decline of two parent families, the decline in society's moral compass. The list is endless.

The internet doesn't help because it places all of this content in the hands of our minors who may well be emotionally ill equipped to deal with it.

So maybe, just maybe Mary Whitehouse had a point. When a society loses all sense of boundaries, then it should be no surprise that the most impressionable in society ( young minds ) are so heavily affected.

I have two teenage daughters, and I do worry about this. I have spoken with them on occasion about their use of social media and content they view. If I had boys I would be equally worried, but for different reasons.

This post makes it sound like I am harking back to the "good old days". I'm not because they had their problems too, though there was less pressure on kids then. I think the subject is too complicated to blame on one individual cause. I also think that the genie is out of the bottle now and won't go back in. Society needs to work out a new paradigm for behaviour. It isn't about punishing children ( boys or girls ) for boisterous behaviour. It should be encouraged and given outlets... Sports, activities, etc... but it is about how we counter the constant drip feed of bad examples that they are subject to.

I'm no prude, and I work in IT. I consider myself fairly IT literate, and yet I find myself having to work to keep up with what they are using these days and whether I need to control access to them. How is someone who isn't so familiar supposed to police this ?

Genuinely, I would suggest that smartphones be banned for under 16's. Nothing wrong with a Nokia brick for communication but would stop the propagation of a lot of the stuff that they see.

Apologies for the wall of text, but I find this a fascinating subject.

RLD

@reallyanotherone

Sorry, to be fair, I should have said "TYPICALLY boys play more physically than girls" as, of course, there are plenty of girls who prefer to play this way too (like I said in a previous post, my stepdaughter played rugby for a number of years).

My comments were purely a reaction to the idea that this type of behaviour was part of the same problem as boys sharing misogynistic ideas/material.

For the record, I don't believe there should be 'girls' sports/games and 'boys' ones and certainly not that these choices should be made for them (although I do believe that a significant number are likely to gravitate towards what is, rightly or wrongly, considered 'traditional')

@Rockluvindad

Absolutely spot on.

Similar problem at my (co-ed) school. Women are inferior, rape victims are liars, women are good for two things and one of them is cooking.....it's disgusting. We have similarly tried to tackle this but it's a really pervasive attitude and hard to change. I don't know where it comes from - I guess we are in the throes of a feminist backlash so maybe that's it. Even the girls outraged by these comments will say things like "feminists are stupid" etc. I don't know the answer but can sympathise.

You are so right RLD - Mary Whitehouse DID have a point and was ridiculed for it and now society is reaping what it has sown. ☹️

I'm desperately hoping that you don't work at DS1's school, OP. He's in Y8 now and this was my main concern with him going to an all boys' school - but then, as others have said, it seems to be rife in all types of school

I've never seen the slightest hint that DS and his friends think or behave like this, but I'm not naive enough to think he behaves exactly the same when I'm not there. I've always spoken with him about misogyny and feminism, ever since he was tiny. He knows I'd be absolutely gutted if he harboured attitudes like this. I don't know what else I can do to prevent him from encountering boys like this. But know that as a teacher you'd have my full support - it's absolutely disgusting that your SLT aren't supporting you in this.

I've just had a baby boy and if I ever found out he acted like this in the future I would be devastated. I don't understand how the mothers of these boys are justifying their behaviour. It's terrible!

You are burying your heads in the sand if you don't monitor what your 13/14/15 year old dds might be posting on social media - some of these girls have hundreds of 'friends'.

I meant to add that I don't remember reading any misogynistic comments from the boys - lots of red hearts, 'wide eyed' emojis or 'stunning' comments from them which might be seen as encouraging. On the other hand, there was a lot of childish gay banter between the boys as well.

Rap videos now seem to be literally a 4 minute tirade about "ho's and bitches, money, drugs

Yes, I can see why black culture in the UK might have a particular attitude towards women and girls.

livinginaweirdworld
I work in an all boys school, these are very bright boys in a selective school

Surely, if you work in a selective school, then many of these boys will have mothers in academic or professional jobs and sisters attending top universities?

Everyone thinks it’s not their kid though.

I would be devastated if either of my sons behaved like this. My boys are fortunate to have lots of strong, but un macho, male role models. DH and his crowd were students in the eighties when being a lefty feminist man was totally cool and misogyny was social suicide.

I think having sisters and female friends helps too. And doing hobbies and clubs with girls. Problems happen when girls are othered.

very bright boys in a selective school

There you are then - no doubt they've been told that they are the best of the best, and they all now think they are superior to everyone, including many of the staff.

I used to work in Bedford a town with a high-ranking boys-only private school, and the boys from there were a nightmare. They'd swan about round the town at lunchtime and after school, expecting everybody to jump out of their path, and would shove you off the pavement if you didn't get out of their important way.

Ooh I've just rembered something from my youth ..late seventies..about 1977 ..I had an interim job as a petrol pump attendant in the days when you served customers .This place was on a steep hill and the forecourt was quite high up , .
As it was still term time the local school buses would drive by and they were often quite riotous, but the worst was the Alton Convent School double decker , St .Trininans had nothing on them ...I had girls calling across the road asking if I was a virgin , showed their pants if I would show mine , so and so fancies you ( so funny ), and a few slightly riper comments . Ok not threatening and it caused quite a stir amongst the mechanics who came out to see what the fuss was (and they were shocked lol) but those girl's (now probably mn mothers themselves ) mothers would have had a blue fit if they'd heard them .

Trust me, I've seen enough photos (on Instagram) of 14/15 year old girls, posing in their bras and bikini tops, breasts 'spilling out' all over the place or 'thrusting their behinds' at the camera, to know that there is a real problem here. I wish I hadn't seen these photos, but I have, and thankfully ds1 was too immature at 13/14 to take much notice.

They'd swan about round the town at lunchtime and after school, expecting everybody to jump out of their path, and would shove you off the pavement if you didn't get out of their important way

That sort of behaviour isn't necessarily misogynistic though.

Trust me, I've seen enough photos (on Instagram) of 14/15 year old girls, posing in their bras and bikini tops, breasts 'spilling out' all over the place or 'thrusting their behinds' at the camera, to know that there is a real problem here

Those wicked temptresses, right?

🙄

No, that's not, its the arrogance and entitlement of those who know they're 'special'. So the ordinary rules don't apply to them and misogyny is just part of the superiority together with despising chavs and socialists and feminists and a whole host of others who've been added to the list. Disgusting attitude. Had this conversation already this week. We'll keep on having it too until one of us gives in. It won't be me.

My daughter is at an all-girls school, and she has reported similar (as well as racist) behaviour from their twinned boys' school.
I'm not sure the single sex environment is a healthy one, and it's not something I'd repeat if I had my time again.

I have no idea what you’re going on about longway or who to

Everyone I know who might be told their Ds was reacting like this would deal with it strongly

No exemptions

Like other posters are saying they would too

I’m surprised there are letters sent home and nothing is done

I teach in a top Uk comprehensive. I don’t see this in y7 and 8. If there was anything it would be immediately stepped on, and escalated if required.

Im not saying they don’t do it, but they don’t do it in class. And if any of them behaved like that in my class l’d be very angry and concerned.

NotAnotherJaffaCake the school in question wouldnt happen to share its name with a soup manufacturer, would it (not Heinz)? !

How terrible this is. It’s depressing that they have these attitudes but It does sound like discipline is seriously lacking in the school and I think you do need to raise it again. What sort of men are the school imagining they are turning out and are they happy with it? I’m 30, at my mixed sex school behaviour like this would have been stamped out. There was once an incident where sexually explicit messages were sent to a female staff member, the culprit was hauled before the head, made to read them out and told they would be reported to the police. I know you’re not dealing with quite the same level but would a series of talks about sexual harassment/ assault/ workplace harassment/the repercussions by someone the boys do perceive to be an authority such as the head or a visiting police officer be any good?