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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder why introverts understand extroverts but extroverts don't understand introverts.

594 replies

Seline · 02/02/2019 23:05

Something I've wondered for a while.

Plenty of introverts understand that extroverts genuinely enjoy lots of social interaction and things that we find heinous, like surprise visits or smalltalk bring them joy. We may not understand why however we're aware that it does.

Extroverts on the other hand can't seem to fathom that some people don't want to socialise and enjoy being alone. You see this with people getting offended that their relatives don't want them to pop in unannounced, upset that their friend declined an invitation, or insisting on building people's confidence when the person isn't shy they're just quiet.

What's the reasoning for this? It always irritates me somewhat.

OP posts:
NoNewsisGood · 04/02/2019 11:18

@jamhandprints has it. That's exactly it.

Scandaloso · 04/02/2019 11:28

'You can have a friend round if you really, really, really, really, must but I'd really, really, really rather you didn’t.'

What a way to make a person feel welcome in their own home!

cannemc · 04/02/2019 11:28

I love this. I’ve always been an introvert, I’ve always preferred to socialise on my own terms and importantly, I’ve always needed a fair bit of time and quiet on my own afterwards to kind of ‘recharge’. I love time on my own without noise and as I’m getting older I value silence even more. I’m not opposed to socialising at all - I just prefer it when it’s my choice.
When I was younger I know people didn’t get it, I was always being pushed forward to talk to people, constant comments about being shy and quiet, having to do stupid group things and role playing at various times which I despise, and being almost harassed into going somewhere and doing something no matter how much you say no.

AgentCooperdreamsofTibet · 04/02/2019 11:29

There have been some really good and reasoned explanations on this thread. As an introvert, myself, I was struck by the notion that an extroverted person would only seek to turn down an invitation or go off and read a book quietly if they don’t like or are specifically trying to avoid someone so they can’t get their heads around the fact that others doing this, does not automatically equal dislike and should not cause offence.

Personally, I don’t find labels helpful and have very rarely described myself as an introvert in real life – this is more online forum-speak IMO. I do see the perceived superiority complex that can be associated with introverts and kind of want to distance myself from this. A couple of cases in point: A few years ago I hired an assistant at work who, from day one, stated that she was an introvert and as such, I’d have to adapt the way we work to suit her personality needs (not answering phones, not being pressured to work to deadlines, not attending meetings etc). I put to her that as an introvert myself, I sympathised but the job was clearly set out in the role descriptor and advert and I could offer a quiet office space, happy for her to tune out, use headphones etc and plan her time to include a degree of downtime after any full-on activities but at the end of the day, all personalities have to accept some degree of compromise deal with business needs in the real world. She argued with me every day that I was failing to meet her needs as an introvert and wanted a referral to disability services to formalise adjustments. Personally, I found the idea that being an introvert = disability to be quite offensive. She insisted that I should take a Myers-Briggs test and when it came out as INTJ, flew into a rage, saying that I was lying as I couldn’t possibly be introverted as I didn’t understand her needs. She left the job after 3 months. The partner of one of my close friends also identifies outwardly as an introvert – she’s the type of person who posts on facebook constantly about the superiority of introverts and how she hates extroverts who don’t think deeply and don’t understand people like her. She also equates introversion with disability, talking about how she got her diagnosis at age 12 and it has been a struggle all her life to accept her limitations and deal with prejudice . Based on these people, I can absolutely understand why some extroverts hackles raise as soon as they hear someone make a point of identifying as an introvert. As many PPS have said, some people are just dicks, regardless of extroversion/introversion and hiding behind labels is a particular dickish move.

As an introvert, I don’t think I am superior to others but I do struggle at work and with my family of extreme extroverts. I work in an organisation filled with extroverts with a culture of getting together for meetings, brainstorming, board discussions etc for every single thing. I am sure that 70% of the meetings I attend could easily have been emails. These meetings are like cattle markets with little structure and everyone competing to have their voice heard and I find it really difficult to be productive in this environment. I am tried faking it, but the problem, when this type of interaction doesn’t come naturally to you is that I come across as even more awkward. So, we’ll have 20 people around a table, all talking over each other and throwing new ideas into the mix; I’ll psych myself up and blurt out an idea – doing exactly what I see other people doing – but everyone will stare at me and later I’ll be told that I came across rudely. But I do try to compromise and improve. The other problem is that when everyone dashes from meeting to meeting, with all these things happening back-to-back and no downtime in-between, I can see that they are all visibly energised by this, coming up with more and more ideas at every subsequent meeting and when they do get an elusive 20 minutes back at their desks, they are so revved up that they rattle through 100s of emails with sharp, focused responses before running to the next meeting. Me; I become more and more drained, each meeting sapping my productivity and when I get to my desk and see 200 emails that have come in while I’ve been in meetings, I just want to cry and have no energy to tackle them, and so the work piles up and I fall behind. I have tried talking to my boss about this – but also trying not to come across like my own former employee – but she just doesn’t get it and this is where I understand and agree with the OP. I absolutely understand that my colleagues are energised in this environment but they don’t see the opposite effect on me. I have found ways to cope in this environment and am constantly compromising but it feels like a one-way street. On the other hand, however, I am frequently praised for my skills in facilitating focus groups where I make a point of allowing everyone time to speak and listen without imposing my own views so that I can write up accurate reports on what has been expressed – so my introversion is not always a disadvantage in my work.

One of the most useful things that a manager ever said to me, very early in my career and which I have tried to replicate when I am chairing meetings, was – after the meeting and having taken me aside; “you didn’t say much in the discussion but I could see your thought process with all the cogs turning as you processed what everyone else was saying. I’d love to hear your conclusions once you’ve had time to fully reflect so please email me as soon as you are able”. This made me feel valued as part of the team, and not criticised for not being like everyone else.

Kazzyhoward · 04/02/2019 11:47

One of the most useful things that a manager ever said to me, very early in my career and which I have tried to replicate when I am chairing meetings, was – after the meeting and having taken me aside; “you didn’t say much in the discussion but I could see your thought process with all the cogs turning as you processed what everyone else was saying. I’d love to hear your conclusions once you’ve had time to fully reflect so please email me as soon as you are able”. This made me feel valued as part of the team, and not criticised for not being like everyone else.

Well said. An excellent example of a good manager who can identify peoples' strengths rather than dwell on their perceived "weaknesses".

I was very similar. I'd be very quiet in a meeting, especially if we were there to meet a new client or new employee, but my cogs would be turning and I'd usually follow it up with some good feedback which was usually highly appreciated by the managers, or so they'd tell me.

Being quiet in a meeting (or classroom) doesn't mean you aren't engaging. Crap managers and crap teachers just don't seem to understand that you can still be bright and understand it, even if you're not gobby! Good managers and teachers will accept you for who you are and get the best out of you. And let's face it, it's not as if there's only 1 quiet person in a meeting/class of 30 - probably half are quiet so it's not as if the manager/teacher has to do anything special for just 1 person is it?

MuseumofInnocence · 04/02/2019 12:00

That is a god way to handle shy people in meetings. I’m not sure shyness is the same as introversion

Kikipost · 04/02/2019 12:02

A good response
But you can see why extroverts may be favoured in a work environment as introvert seem to need extra assistance in order to draw them out and get their views etc. As this was a case in point

WrenNatsworthy · 04/02/2019 12:23

You sound like the kind of bully I was referring to, with no empathy, no understanding and no tolerance - the sort who takes offence because not everyone is as social as you. Why can't you just accept other people are different without that meaning that they have some kind of mental health problem.

I think that Bertram inferred that you felt superior to others because of the words you used in your post. That doesn't make her (or him) a bully?

I am extrovert who has been bullied - and the person that has made me feel the worst about myself in my life is an extrovert - an ex close friend. It doesn't mean I think all introverts are bastards! Those of you that need to see the world in such black and white terms have more going on than introversion - and it isn't bullying to point that out.

Everyone else is not responsible from your problems - everyone else has to negotiate the world and their place in it.

WrenNatsworthy · 04/02/2019 12:24

bloody hell - that mistake was unfortunate - the person who bullied me most was introvert - not an extrovert.

I had to remove myself from her friendship because her behaviour was making me sick with anxiety.

Seline · 04/02/2019 12:27

What did the introvert do? I'm not saying some introverts aren't rude anyone can be rude.

OP posts:
WrenNatsworthy · 04/02/2019 12:27

I was struck by the notion that an extroverted person would only seek to turn down an invitation or go off and read a book quietly if they don’t like or are specifically trying to avoid someone so they can’t get their heads around the fact that others doing this, does not automatically equal dislike and should not cause offence.

That is bonkers? Extroverts only read books when they don't want to talk to you?!!!! If that's the case then how the hell do they get themselves to management positions to bully all the introverts?

Absolutely crackers!

WrenNatsworthy · 04/02/2019 12:29

@Seline her introversion was not a cause of her behaviour. That is my point.

I'm not going to precis 20 years of friendship dynamics on a mumsnet post.

AgentCooperdreamsofTibet · 04/02/2019 12:34

@Wren I was paraphrasing a selection of comments which had made me look at thinks differently. Apologies if I got the tone wrong.

AgentCooperdreamsofTibet · 04/02/2019 12:34

things

WrenNatsworthy · 04/02/2019 12:37

No need to apologise - I just think that if you think someone is reading a book because they don't want to talk to you, that's paranoia, not extraversion.

The definition of the words 'Introvert' and 'Extrovert' are very simple.

They are one way to describe the way folk recharge their batteries. That's it!

thecatsthecats · 04/02/2019 12:39

I think my DH thinks he's an extrovert, but I don't see a wild amount of evidence for it.

We live 40min away from where our friends live - we could have chosen to live near them, but he was opposed. It affects the amount we socialise with them a lot.

He likes to sit on his phone, and likes to sit in the house with our cats. I think at best he sits on the middle of the spectrum.

I am introverted, but I also hate having more than a day entirely to myself. I'm in a sulk today because I'm in no state to go to work, and am working from home keeping my germs to myself, but I spent all YESTERDAY evening alone too, Humph.

Almostthere15 · 04/02/2019 13:24

I thought I'd left this thread, but I dipped back in and chipping in, like the extrovert I am Wink, to say its simply not true thst extroverts would only do a solitary activity to avoid seeing someone they don't like. I read extensively and have a pretty solo crafting hobby. I also live for a silent bath.

When people are unpleasant and rude we shouldn't put that down to personality type, but just a thought, maybe introverts misunderstand extroverts just as much, bit the6 don't vocalise it. It's honestly unhelpful, imo, to give too much weight to one aspect of a personality test that has a number of dimensions (And is becoming a bit discredited anyway). I can't we did helps anyone to put themselves so firmly in a box- it's just a preference, it isn't a medical condition and some of the examples on this thread show why it's unhelpful to get quite so hung up on it!

Ali1cedowntherabbithole · 04/02/2019 15:33

I'm shocked at the suggestion that some people think introversion is a disability. As I said yesterday, its a preference, not a diagnosis.

I prefer to work undisturbed. I can still cope with interruptions.
I prefer chatting one to one. I am still capable of functioning in larger groups.
I prefer written information. I also ask questions in person and by telephone to find out an answer to a question.

As an introvert, it is up to me to manage my introvert preferences in society. It is not up to society at large to accommodate me and introversion doesn't exempt me from good manners and social conventions.

I arrange catch-ups with friends and family to reduce unexpected visits
I try to balance social events with quieter days so that I can have some down-time to decompress.
I listen to audiobooks on the train to wind down after a busy day at work.
and picking up agentcoopers point - it's up to me to find a job that works for me.

Harleyband · 04/02/2019 17:43

Ali1cedowntherabbithole
I completely agree. I am quite an extreme introvert but work in a field that requires a lot of social interaction. Most of my colleagues are surprised when I say an introvert as I cope and function just fine. I do like my alone time at home and regularly turn down social invitations (Christmas party season is my idea of hell) after work. I do not have a disability. I have a personality trait that I can manage.

Charley50 · 04/02/2019 17:49

Gotta say, I think the whole premise for this thread is all wrong, and so many assumptions are being made about people, based on one personality trait, it's a joke.

Teacher22 · 04/02/2019 18:18

The whole world is organised by and for extraverts today and introverts are not valued. Given that many of them are clever, extremely well read and give thinking time to subjects that extraverts do not have time for, they are a wasted valuable resource.

I am introverted but can mix with others and enjoy their company. I do, however, need downtime to process a busy, noisy period. I am married to an extravert and it works well.

HappyWidcombe · 04/02/2019 18:48

I read an explanation of the differences between introverts and extroverts that really made sense. I think it was in Quiet by Susan Caine*. It was that whilst both can be sociable, and both can be unsociable, extroverts gain energy from others, whilst introverts lose energy to others. Afterwards, extroverts are buzzing with all the extra energy they have gained, and introverts need to go and recharge all the energy they have lost. This explanation makes total sense to me — I enjoy socialising but must recharge alone; my husband does not enjoy socialising but when he does he is generally energised by it.

*Interestingly, when I was trying to remember the name of the book so I could put it here, I initially searched for “Noise” before remembering it was “Quiet” .....

SemiAquaticEggLayingMammal · 04/02/2019 19:13

Pika said this-

I've met introverts who are pretty self absorbed and spend all their time judging people who are different to them. I think it just boils down to snow people being arseholes and it's best not to make sweeping generalisations.

Totally. Some people on here are just managing to make introverts sound like miserable funsponges. Introverts should tolerate extroverts more and the extroverts need to tolerate introverts more. That's all.

For the record, I am an introvert, just, but an introvert none the less.

There is a particular type of person who just rides roughshod over anyone else, and is blind to all understanding of other people's needs. That is not an exclusively extravert trait, I know a few examples of both E's and I's who are like this and they are all so tiresome. Wide berth required.

I am pretty good at spotting how other people feel when with them in person. I wonder if I's have much subtler cues, but more of them. E's maybe have bolder giveaways, but only a few are necessary. Interesting stuff.

LoniceraJaponica · 04/02/2019 19:15

I agree Happy. I always thought that DD was an introvert, but when she had a Christmas temp job she was always buzzing after each shift.

Mutinerie · 04/02/2019 19:31

Extroverts tend to have a lot of friends, who are all, drum roll please, almost all also extroverts! So they think that is a normal or default way to function. And if they befriend in introvert, they are a bit lost, and when they ask their friends for advice, their friends will give bad advice. It's just hard for them to learn.

I had an extrovert friend, who had a boyfriend that one Sunday afternoon, after 3 months of spending every minute of every weekend together, wanted to read a book for 30mins and not interact with her. For half an hour, no talking just reading. This women's whole crowd of friends, a group of real extroverts, thought this was a horrible thing to do and they all told her to break up with him. What?