After school detention - AIBU to say no

[Florasnotin]

DD and DS missed the school bus this morning. Completely my fault, I took their phones from them last night and forgot to set the alarm. They caught the public bus and were 15 mins late.

They've both been given an after school detention on Monday.

AIBU to say no. Punishment doesn't really fit the crime and it wasn't even their fault. I've always stood by the school when it comes to discipline but this seems overly harsh

BlueTrees, what do you imagine your lawyer could do about a detention you don't agree with, given that by law the school doesn't need your agreement to detentions? It's a basic legal maxim that you don't threaten something you can't carry out, so no competent lawyer is going to threaten any sort of legal consequences for failing to bow to your wishes with regard to detentions.

99% of schools would back down the second legal action is mentioned.

They really don't, you know. Independent schools tend to have their own legal muscle, as do academy chains, and maintained schools also have access to the advice of experienced education lawyers. Very few of them back down in response to empty threats, and if they did it would be an indicator that it's not a good school anyway.

I mean, I've spent the last few years instructing 'my lawyer' over a nasty divorce.

His job has generally been to explain the law to my appalling ex, & very occasionally to say 'ah but Purple there's a bit of a problem with what you want to happen, because you haven't taken into account factor x, which legally blah blah...'

I didn't hire him to throw unwinnable hissy fits in the direction of stuff that's already established in law - q.v. the legality of after school detentions, say.

That would've been a terrible waste of my money & energy.

Is this really a thing? Parents telling schools they can't do detention? They'll have to get on with it and in future set an alarm on an alarm clock and take some personal responsibility.

Honestly, no, schools don't 'back down' as soon as some stroppy type threatens legal action.

The Head will look at the position, consult legal advice if it's at all unclear, & if it's something as clear cut & established as after school detention, legality of, flick back a standard letter.

You are talking about people who routinely deal with an organisation of 1000+ mardy hormonal teenagers & probably 100+ staff.

You are not going to be the first parent who is hellbent on arguing about their dc being in detention. You won't even be the first one that week.

You might be the first one staging a sit in in reception & needing removed, admittedly.

@PurpleCrowbar

How come my DC have never had to do a detention I didn't want them to then? A quick phone call informing the school that they won't be attending does the trick. I know of many other parents at the school who've done the same(and I believe the school doesn't even bother running detentions now due to parental views).

The only time I've had to stand firm in reception is to ensure DD was moved up a maths set to match her abilities. After initially being told by the head of department that there was nothing they could do, she was moved that afternoon after I spoke firmly and forcefully to the headteacher.

I've already said earlier on this thread that I have phoned reception in the past when my child was late as I didn't want them getting a detention as there was a genuine reason and otherwise my child is a good student, behaves, good attendance etc. But all this talk of lawyers, applying pressure to teachers, going in to school and refusing to move until you get your way is absolutely crazy. It's not ok to intimidate and bully teachers.

Also, are your children not mortified that you act like this? My year 10 son just about copes with us going to parents evening 😂, never mind kicking up a huge fuss and 'telling' teachers how to do their job. He would be hugely embarrassed if I fought the school on everything. I will always be willing to speak to a teacher if my children want me to and something seems unfair or unclear in some way, but always in a polite way. If your children are genuinely good kids and the teacher can see that you are a reasonable parent willing to listen as well as calmly explain, you usually get the issue sorted in a way that everyone is happy with. I would hate the school to see me as difficult as I think it really pays to have a good relationship with the school. Your way of doing things just sounds stressful, embarrassing and hard work for everyone.

I feel sorry for any HOD whose professional judgement is undermined by a weak headteacher who can be manipulated by bullying from a parent.

BlueTrees, you've said that if a school disobeyed your edict that your child wasn't going to do a detention you would be off to your lawyer. Could you explain what you think your lawyer would do?

BlueTrees123 You’re an embarrassment to yourself and an embarrassment to your children.

You are not helping them, you are making them a laughing stock.

What you have there is a pathetic Head who is too busy panicking whilst you're lying on the floor in Reception, drumming your heels & wailing, that they aren't leading the school.

As discussed up thread, it's an unpleasant & thankless job, mostly because of the occasional batshit parent. Sometimes you end up with a spineless dimwit in the post.

I'm glad to work in, & send my children to, a school with higher standards.

Blue trees,

If you are for real, you must have found the school with one of the weakest heads in the entire country.

Most schools, when parents pull the ‘legal action’ stunt, summon the parents to a meeting with the head and they get told that clearly the school is not meeting their child’s needs and they need to find another school that will. Normally, at that point they back down. Occasionally the child disappears shortly thereafter.

As for the Maths set sit in, I guess it was no skin off the school’s nose if an average child was one set too high and could not access the learning.

What would you sue the school for, by the way? Damages? To get damages, you have to prove a real cost was incurred. For a detention?!

Finally, do you think you are helping your children? What teacher would really bother with a kid who declined to do a fairly set detention? Teachers regularly go above and beyond to help children achieve their potential, but it is a two way street.

Blue trees can not be real surely. If this is real then I hope I never have the misfortune to work at such a badly run school.

@BlueTrees123

It's clear that you don't trust or respect the leadership of the school your DCs attend.

I cannot imagine how difficult it must be to send your DCs there everyday - constantly worrying about their wellbeing. It must be exhausting for you and your DC to have that hanging over you every day.

Is there really no option to enrol your DC at a school where you, and they, trust the Leadership to provide an environment that of aligned to your values?

Because they were late I'd let it go. I don't agree with after school detention for safety reasons. Kids tend to travel together and it would worry me if mine were kept behind and having to make their way home alone. I never let mine stay for a detention after school and requested it was at lunch time instead. They spend enough time at school anyway and we're all late sometimes! It's the mad morning rush!!! X

Migi,

We are not ‘all late sometimes’. There are loads of students who are always on time. Would you excuse a colleague being 10 minutes late for an important meeting because if ‘the max morning rush’?

School is about modelling behaviour in order to prepare students for life. If you believe other people’s time is valuable, you try not to waste it by being late. It is just manners. If you find yourself regularly 10 minutes late, aim to be 15 minutes early.

If you believe after school detention is dangerous, you are a fully fledged snowflake with your 6 sides glistening symmetrically in the moonlight! Weekends must be very dull in winter with a 4pm curfew...

SaturdayNext
It's not lists of people who raise questions or complaints, dont worry. They're mentql lists of parents who have tried to bully and intimidate staff. So for example, if a parent is known to harass members of staff by phone/email, turn up arguing over simple rule breaks, been known to get confrontational in meetings and in phone calls, call seeking callbacks from lots if different teachers to have an argument & will keep going until someone might phrase something differently and then demand a meeting with the head etc, then middle /senior leaders might make the decision that all contact goes through a named member of staff (usually a head of year or senior leader). It's not that contact is refused.

Think about posters on trains and hospitals about how verbal abuse towards staff won't be tolerated. Schools have a duty to staff to not subject them to verbal abuse and intimidation.

larrygrylls
I agree on the weak leadership. As I said earlier, the schools where parents know they can behave like that and get their own way tend to be the ones with more behaviour issues and poorer results.
Bluetrees is hilariously ridiculous, until you remember that sadly there are people who behave like that.

SaturdayNext
On the other hand, I'm not comfortable with schools having ever-expanding lists of what they no doubt characterise as "those" parents.

Basically what Maisy posted.

To put it into some sort of perspective, the lists are usually of those that are escorted to and from the teachers on parents evening, or on several occasions had there own room and the teachers went to see them.

They are the parents that bully, harass, threaten violence, are violent, or threaten litigation at every opportunity,

We all know that schools are legally required to protect children but it is often forgotten that as an employer they are also legally required to protect staff.

From experience the children of posters like bluetrees fall in to two categories.

1/ So embarrassed by their parents that they behave implacably because they can't stand the issues that their parents cause over the smallest of things. They even apologise to the teachers for their parents actions.

2/ Those that believe that they are untouchable by the school and know that their parents will come wading in heavy handed in to any situation no matter what they have done.

Neither is any bother as the first won't get into trouble and the second either gets taken out of lessons (due to constant disruption) and any detentions get passed on up the line, and they miss many days of school due to parents not sending them in when they have a detention or internal exclusion.

I feel so sorry for children in that first category.
They can also be the children who are doing their best, are lovely students but home have decided they are underperforming and so have a go at the school because that's better (in their eyes) than realising their child is lovely and hard working but is highly unlikely to get a set of 7s-9s. Obviously we don't cap attainment in class, but the reality is they are working well and having a go at school isn't going to magically make their child's marks higher.
Or when we do trips and we say 'will back between x and y depending on traffic' and we get back closer to y. There's one who is getting angry so we get off the bus to a torrent of abuse because they expected us back at X and have had to miss their hairdresser appointment at y o'clock. The child looks helpless and mortified.

The children in the first group, as you say are rarely in trouble because they are so lovely.

Larrygrylls, what a foul mood you woke up in. Don't take it out on me. If you've never been late for anything in your life good for you. I however am human and once or twice have been so am sympathetic to the OPs post. Wow.

It seems harsh - everyone is late sometimes. Unless you are abnormal.

Can you offer to do the detention since the fault was yours?

If not, say no to that detention for sure.

It's not unsympathetic though. If that's the penalty for being late then don't be late. If you know you're going to be late; phone in. It's disruptive when people arrive late. Schools do not need to ask permission to detain your children. Parents who have an issue with that need to take it up with their MP.

@zippey. School is not asking. If OP says no it will escalate the situation as non-attendance at a detention will result in the next stage of the process (varies from school to school would be a Saturday detention at my school).
The OP decided it was more important to have some time to herself. Which is fair enough, but there is a consequence.

The State has no moral right to detain your child against your wishes. There is no way I would have let my children have detention if I hadn’t thought it to be just.