After school detention - AIBU to say no

[Florasnotin]

DD and DS missed the school bus this morning. Completely my fault, I took their phones from them last night and forgot to set the alarm. They caught the public bus and were 15 mins late.

They've both been given an after school detention on Monday.

AIBU to say no. Punishment doesn't really fit the crime and it wasn't even their fault. I've always stood by the school when it comes to discipline but this seems overly harsh

If you want to ‘challenge’ a school, making an appointment to discuss policy is the way to do it.

For those who refuse school sanctions, you have to remember that creates a precedent for other parents to do the same. And those parents may have a different idea of ‘fairness’ to you. So the child who did something wrong to your child might also feel that a detention was inappropriate.

School sanctions produce a safe and fair playing field for all. They are not perfect but living with the odd unfairness is a reasonable price to pay.

But larrygrylls the sort of people who refuse sanctions, get into hysterical hyperbole and claim they'll get a legal team on the case aren't the sort of people who are genuinely interested in constructive dialogue with schools.
The mistake is considering them rational and sensible.

In reality, those people will be quick to claim 'my child was just... they were only... It was ^just banter...' but then want the rules applying to other children.
If their child was disruptive then they'll explain it away, get frothy and tell the child 'my mum says I don't have to...' but then if their child's learning is affected by something or they have an issue with another student then home are on the phone demanding to know what is being done about it. What those types of people want is a pick and mix approach.

Meanwhile the sensible parents (majority) are more than capable of reasonable discussion, where there are concerns they raise them and so on.

Sometimes I wonder if schools would be better if anyone of the view 'rules and sanctions are optional for my child' sent them to a school where that was the policy. It would be interesting to see the results.

Oh those are the very parents who want rules and sanctions for OTHER people’s kids.

I'm 100% up for challenging schools when it is necessary. However, for exactly that reason I wouldn't challenge them for something where I know I'm on shaky ground, because it would weaken my position if or when I'm challenging on valid grounds. In OP's situation, the most I would do would be to grovel to the school, say that it was primarily my fault, and ask if they would let it go on the footing that I had just bought my children alarm clocks.

Ha surely Bluetrees is not for real! He/she sounds like one of the pupils!

How ridiculous, “put them in their place”, “get my legal team on to it”. Yep, I call troll because no adult can be that clueless and use that type of hysterical language.

On the smal offchance that you are really an actual adult with an actual responsible career and no anger issues that would maybe account for your over-zealous frothing and hysteria, if you disagree with a school’s very normal behaviour policy why on God’s earth would you choose to send your precious child there? The mind boggles. That’s like saying moving to, say, the USA and then complaining that their drinking laws are too strict and you want your child to be allowed to buy alcohol at 18 simply because you think the law is too harsh there and YOUR child is above everyone else who manages to stick to it.

Honestly just read back what you’ve written. Feel free to take your precious child to a sink school for their free education where it sounds like they would probably fit right in.

curly
I sometimes wonder if people are for real, but then I remember that the pupils I went to school with who had parents like that (I don't consent... breaking human rights to expect silent working... you can't make my DC do a detention... you picking up my child for bad behaviour is bullying because you always speak to them and nobody else) are now the parents and I'm not entirely convinced apples fall far from the tree on that front most of the time.

CurlyhairedAssassin

Most schools have at least one parent like bluetrees.

In every school that I have worked in there has been a list of parents that you do not contact as a teacher, all contact is through deputy/assistant heads or the head teacher.

Just one? mine has a couple of hundred. And it goes up each year. They’re all about their rights, as forget all about their responsibilities. And yes, the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree, Maisy, so this number increases each year in my school. It’s hugely depressing but explains everything that’s going wrong with society. I have many friends who work in the NHS and are subject to abuse from people they’re trying to care for (no mental health issues, just arrogant, whingeing shits like Bluetrees). I mean, people attacking ambulances? WTF?????

They literally don’t know how to be a member of society.

As stated earlier. It’s their fault and they just need to get on with it. I would have died a death if my mom got involved in school. No wonder the term snowflake is used everywhere. They have learnt a lesson from this.

boney
Every school I've worked in has had similar lists.
They'd also be noted on parents' evenings and a member of SLT would have eyes at all times ready to jump in if it looked like they were being obnoxious and rude to staff.

Far too many on here who are prepared to sacrifice the needs of their DC in their 'school is always right' mantra. Personally, I don't care if I ruffle a few feathers at the school- my DC's needs will come first and the school will do as I say regarding their welfare and education.

I'm quite prepared to put pressure on teachers and school staff and I won't hesitate to sit in reception and refuse to leave until they back down(and have done) to get my DC the education and support they need.

Far too many on here who are prepared to sacrifice the needs of their DC in their 'school is always right' mantra.
Except nobody had said schools are always right.
In fact, many people (teachers included) have said there are times to rightly challenge school... just that 'i don't like a sanction for something they've done' isn't it.
Personally, I don't care if I ruffle a few feathers at the school- my DC's needs will come first and the school will do as I say regarding their welfare and education.
It's not ruffling feathers. It's obnoxious and rude and teaching your child they can pick and mix things they like and don't and all they have to do is bleat unfair to you and because of your school chip and bizarre idea of authority you'll storm in waging some silly war. I'm not entirely convinced that prepares them for life.
I'm quite prepared to put pressure on teachers and school staff and I won't hesitate to sit in reception and refuse to leave until they back down(and have done) to get my DC the education and support they need
So you're a rude, confrontational and obnoxious bully who seeks conflict and will throw a strop and try to intimidate people to get your own way. Nice. I'm sure that's a fabulous example to your children.

You do realise that the larger a number of parents like that exist in a school, the worse behaviour and results get. Thankfully the tide is turning on that sort of thing. The police would have been called if you tried that at most schools near me.

Bluetrees123 - you seem very misguided about the best way to get support for your child..... do you behave like that at work too?
You might bully your way through primary/secondary school, but long term what are you teaching your child, that the only way to deal with a situation is to be difficult and confrontational? Teachers and school staff are people not machines, and you sound like a very unpleasant person to have to d

And when your children leave school, and they want a reference for college or a job, do you really think the teachers you have badgered all these years are going to write your child a glowing reference?

You

IMHO it depends if that meant I would have to pick them up (and if I could) - if I could then I'd suck it up and they could do the detention

If I couldn't., do due to work or lack of transport, I'd ring the school. explain and ask if they could do the dentention at lunch (even if it's over two lunches to make up the time)

Sorry accidentally posted too soon, that was supposed to say ‘to have to deal with’

iolaus
But that's sensible and some people aren't.

There's often a difference between can't and won't for some though (E.g. most of our students walk in, yet we still occasionally get parents saying their child can't do a detention because they can't be picked up, when they live a 10/20 min walk from school on well lit streets).

You're right though, most of the time if a parent has a real query and wants to work with school, then schools are receptive.

@ninjawarriorsocks

I'd be making sure a good reference is provided for my DC, using whatever measures necessary. I find that it really isn't difficult to bring school staff round to your way of thinking once you introduce a little pressure.

I'd be making sure a good reference is provided for my DC, using whatever measures necessary. I find that it really isn't difficult to bring school staff round to your way of thinking once you introduce a little pressure.
Haha. This is getting more an more fanciful by the second.

I love the idea of someone backing a badly behaved child for years, refusing to engage with any element of the behaviour policy they didn't like, would threaten legal action over things that are entirely lawful, would sit in a school and refuse to move, seek to bully schools and now would try to intimidate and coerce the school into lying on a reference.

Bluetrees123 - you're good value, I will say that for you.

As I've said, I'm overseas & private & things are quite different; we'd just decline your business. My school wouldn't be a good fit for you, because we have expectations you aren't willing to meet, so we'd explain that we couldn't continue to offer places to your dc, & off you'd trot to find another school that had different expectations & suited you better.

Our parents want, & pay handsomely for, a top flight education & high expectations - starting with 'everyone is on time & their lessons aren't disrupted by students straggling in late'.

I taught in the U.K. system for nearly 20 years before bailing for the sunlit uplands of a lovely tax free salary &, frankly, fabulous opportunities for my own dc.

U.K. state schools are bedevilled by all sorts of factors that make it hard or impossible for them to match the easy wins of private schools, be they home or abroad.

One of those factors is that it's a bit harder to deal robustly with parents playing pigeon chess.

But it's not that much harder.

My old school in the U.K. would absolutely have assigned detentions to your children, escalated non attendance to isolation & ultimately fixed term exclusion, & have had zero difficulty in justifying all of the above.

& yes, you would very much, if your posturing here reflected your interactions with your dc's school in reality, have been on the 'hotlist' of parents who teachers were not expected to communicate with directly; you'd be being quietly managed by 'the member of SLT in charge of persistently batshit parents'.

It's quite possible that your dc attend a school where the management is so weak that you do get to behave as you've described. They exist...& they aren't schools that I'd be prepared to have my dc attend, or be willing to teach in.

I'm quite prepared to put pressure on teachers and school staff and I won't hesitate to sit in reception and refuse to leave until they back down(and have done) to get my DC the education and support they need

Anyone with any degree of maturity would see that that's an absolutely daft way to try to get what you want. Ultimately schools can and probably will ban you from the premises.

In a different context, we once had someone where I work try a similar tactic: he thought, wrongly, that we were taking too long to achieve something that wasn't in our control anyway, so he came in and sat down in reception and said he wasn't going to move till we had sorted it out. We explained the situation once more, and that he could sit there all week but it wouldn't change it, but he still wouldn't have it. So we basically said "Have it your own way" and left him to it. After a few hours he realised we weren't bothered and he wasn't achieving anything other than getting increasingly uncomfortable, hungry and thirsty (and giving some of our staff a bit of a laugh) and he gave up and went home.

@PurpleCrowbar

As I've said, the school can try to implement all the 'escalations' they want, whether that be detentions, isolations or whatever. But the only escalation that would be happening is me calling my lawyer.

What do you imagine 'your lawyer' might achieve?

What would be a good outcome for you?

On the other hand, I'm not comfortable with schools having ever-expanding lists of what they no doubt characterise as "those" parents. Sure, there will be parents of whom schools are justifiably wary because they may have a propensity to violence, unjustified complaints or even litigation, but they will generally be in a very small minority. What worries me is that, time and again, it is very evident that parents are demonised and put on the naughty list for the crime of knowing that their child has a problem to which the school is religiously closing its eyes, or for applying for EHC Plans and succeeding when the school has told them it would be pointless, or for actually expecting schools to deliver the support set out in an EHC Plan or, particularly, expecting schools to comply with the requirement of reasonable adjustments for disability. Headteachers in particular need to accept that just because pupils and staff are expected to do what they are told, that doesn't have to apply to parents.

@PurpleCrowbar

That the school's 'behaviour policy' won't apply to my DC and they won't need to do whatever ridiculous punishment the gulag wardens teachers decide to dole out on that day. 99% of schools would back down the second legal action is mentioned.