AIBU to be upset/angry at older man complaining about children in restaurant.

[Wakingwillow]

Just that really. This is my first post but I've been a long time fan of AIBU. We're visiting the UK for a family event.
We're a family of 6, four kids age 11, 9 and 15 mth twins. Staying in a chain family friendly hotel for the weekend. Extended family here also.
After activities today everyone was tired so we decided to have a group family meal in the hotel restaurant. Total 7 children and 8 adults. 5 of the older children (age 8 to 11) sat at a table together next to us. All were very well behaved stayed seated, coloured pages and chatted. The twins sat with adults and made usual toddler noises but nothing too disruptive imo. We had items to keep them entertained and also took them out to lobby area several times.
We arrived at 6pm but due to under staffing there was a delay taking orders and getting food to the table. Kids were served food about 7.20 pm. Adults at 8 ish. (That needs another thread 😐)
After the toddlers had eaten my husband and I took them upstairs cleaned them up, got their pj's on then went back down with them to eat our own meal.
Just as we started eating an older man came over to our table and said that we had ruined his and his wifes night with all our noise.
I really didn't know what to say. I felt an array of emotions, embarrased, upset and finally annoyed/angry. We apologised for the toddlers being disruptive, explained there had been a long delay in them getting food and said we were doing our best to keep them occupied. I also asked him what else could we do, they had to eat to which he responded they should be feed in the room.
I'm so surprised and upset by this. I've never had this happen before and I'm usually very considerate of other diners when we're out as I'm quite shy and don't like to draw attention.
This has really upset me.
I'm just wondering what others have done / would have done in this situation.

I have often wondered about the mindset of people who shout, constantly shriek with high pitched laughter, let their kids make a racket and generally show no awareness of others in restaurants.

I have had a good insight from reading this thread. It is very easy to spot the posters who show no consideration for others in restaurants, but it is seemingly disguised as 'tolerance', 'I'm doing nothing wrong. It's all the other person's fault and they should go somewhere else' etc etc etc.

Spring thank you for your sensible posts.

All I'm saying Charlie is that nothing else will keep him in his seat or prevent him from shouting. I realise you're on my side, I'm trying to explain the difference for my DS to you. It's only until the food comes, between courses and while he's waiting for the adults to finish. He's constantly in front of the behaviour panel at school for things he can't help. This is another reason why we need a diagnosis. For autistic me, I've had to learn better impulse control.

I worked once with someone who thought it was all about tolerance. Everyone at work met up one saturday for lunch with kids. Never again. This woman was loud, wound up the kids there so they were loud, and was a total nightmare. When I suggested she needed to be a bit quieter because of other people there, she told me I was anti fun. She is the kind of person who says that anyone without kids complaining about the noise she and her kids make, is anti kids.

@MaryMarkle - Agreed, it's not about tolerance, it's about respect for others.

If I'm in the pub (hypothetically), getting drunk and rowdy, swearing excessively and making loud, inappropriate comments then I don't expect people to 'tolerate' my behaviour. Just because my tolerance for drunken idiocy is particularly high (I used to do nightclub security so you develop and immunity to it) doesn't make it right.

I was mortified recently (well, probably about a year ago...time flies!). Myself and my wife met a couple of her friends who had their two children with them. We went to a bar/cafe (which welcomes children in the daytime). Within about half hour EVERY other customer had left, the kids were being allowed to run about, there were toys all over the floor and they were making SO much noise it was like a nursery.

This is an extreme example but I have no idea how anybody can develop the mentality that this is acceptable. A place that accepts children doesn't justify loud, disruptive kids in the same way that a place that serves alcohol doesn't excuse loud, moronic drunken behaviour.

@floraandeloise - Absolutely, the attitude that we should 'suck it up and go somewhere else' is clearly perpetuated by the same people who cause the disruption in the first place.

Yes, I too have formed the opinion that many of the posters spouting about 'tolerance' and instructing anyone who doesn't like disruptive noise to 'go somewhere else' are the inconsiderate, rude people who think they should be allowed to make as much noise as they like in restaurants and anyone objecting is just spoiling their fun.

I'm sympathetic, and I personally think if it was a restaurant welcoming children and they were genuinely not noisy, he was a bit unreasonable. Was it a restaurant with a specific children's menu? If not, I don't class if at as family restaurant btw.

That said... lots of people in the UK have a presumption that toddlers (or really any child under school age) will be in bed by about 7pm, so many people simply do not expect to see any young children in restaurants in the evenings, at all. I have a toddler and we either eat out at lunchtime, or have "tea" out (e.g 5.30pm), or if we are planning an adult evening meal, we put him to bed then a babysitter comes over.

All my DC found their own bedtime before school age, about 8pm for all of them. What are people putting them to bed early for? They don't have to get up early. Now I have people saying I put DS 7 to bed too early, but he needs about 11 hours sleep and wakes up at 5am whatever time he goes to bed.

philomena... good for you but for lots of us, children DO have to get up early to be dropped at nursery/childminders etc before we commute to work. Many children need 12h sleep and will sleep 7 - 7 which allows time in the morning to get up, dressed and ready for nursery.

Yes, but that doesn't mean that every child younger than school age should be in bed by 7, does it?

And then when they're older, you get the opposite, when surely it shouldn't be the time on the clock that matters, but the number of hours.

I can deal with most human noise in public it's just anything electronic drives me nuts

From the comments on here its clear children in restaurants is something that divides opinion. I just wanted to clear up a few points. I wasn't back earlier as we had family commitments Sunday and then travelling home.

1. The restaurant was under staffed due to circumstances beyond their control and our meal ended up being a much longer affair than anyone had planned for. The staff did their best, we discussed this with them the next morning and did say if they had told us they were unable to cater for us we would have gone elsewhere or as many suggested stayed in. Hopefully they will have procedures in place if they are in that situation again. It is family friendly, it has a specific kids menu and high chairs are provided. I'm aware family covers people of every age. We arrived at 6 when they opened. I do not want to say where as I feel thats unfair to the venue.
2. The man and his wife arrived after us but got served their meal first. They saw a large group seated there with children and toddlers and they chose to stay. As did the other diners who arrived after us.
3. The older kids stayed seated (2 went at separate times to the restrooms but I'd expect adults to do this too.) 2 of them read books the other 3 coloured pages they were given by the waitress. They chatted but not loudly. Their table was right next to ours.

4.I'm not ageist. The man referred to himself as an old man. He is older than me, had he been younger I would probably have said this too. I estimated an age because I was asked. I have no problem with ageing in fact I find it a much better option than the alternative.

1. We came back down with the toddlers in their pjs (their bedtime is 8pm) because our food was on the table then (8pm). I was just going to eat and return to the room and I didn't think it a wise choice to leave them in the room unattended. I didn't want to eat a cold dinner. We were back upstairs by 8.30 and would have been faster if it weren't for all this. I just posted about it later in the night.
2. The toddlers were not screaming the place down. I would have removed them well before they were anywhere close to that loud. They babbled and laughed but maybe this was at a level the man could not tolerate. They watched a video (sound off), played with books and some plastic animals and I took them to the lobby to keep them occupied because there was such a long wait to preempt them getting bored and noisy. I also let them use soothers 😱. They were not allowed to run around screaming.
3. My issue was with him standing over our table loudly stating we ruined his whole meal. We explained our long wait and that all kids do make some noise but were sorry that it upset him. He didn't move just stayed standing over us. He could have talked to the staff or at any stage he was there calmly talked to me or my OH. One of our group got annoyed with him (not me or oh) so my OH got up and walked with the man towards the lobby, I followed them. My OH calmly explained the situation to him from our point of view. He did not at any point swear at the man.

When I asked him what more we could have done /or what he would have done differently in our situation? His only option was we should eat in the room. I said he was very intolerant of others and the reply I got was "oh you're an agressive female". I didn't go calling him sexist, he also brought up where we were from, I didn't go calling him a racist. He was just annoyed with us and nothing we said would do. So we left it agreeing to disagree.

1. I'm sensitive to others with sensory issues as a family member of ours is an aspie too so I understand the sensory issues. I'm also very familar with the disapproving stares when they overload. This did not happen on this outing. I'm also not snobbish as some questioned. I'd just pick different venues if I want adult only meals these do not have to be expensive. Sorry if that came across differently.
2. At breakfast the man approached the children's grandmother to say he came in peace. My OH and I were not there and did not speak to him again.

10. I've moved on, I've a busy house and am enjoying my noisy children living 😉 and doing all the weekend laundry. Thanks for all your opinions. Anyone who got through all that well done.

Welcome back OP, all seems perfectly acceptable from your point of view and the man an intolerant and intolerable pain. Some people challenge just becauseTHEY deem children should be out of sight by a certain time. Your acquaintance was right to speak and challenge his ridiculous demands!

Hope you enjoyed the rest of your trip.

Your party sounds unbearable OP. Sorry

The reality is that most people are annoyd by obnoxiously loud people, but no-one dares saying anything, clearly because of the reaction when they do which is expressed here, so adopt the stiff lip attitude.

Again swing I thing I must be reading a different thread as I've not seen anyone saying such behaviour is acceptable

Derxa by way of existing? As I'm really struggling what else to OP could have possibly done to offend

OP the man sounds horrible. Don’t mind him. He must go around finding everybody wanting, and criticising everyone. It won’t be a one off.

@derxa why? Because they were a "large" group?

I don't like big group parties or loud kids or lots of kids in a group party, when I go out to dinner, thanks very much.
I try to go to restaurants that are more adult than kid orientated.

I don't like big group parties or loud kids or lots of kids in a group party, when I go out to dinner, thanks very much. This

I suppose the man may have instantly taken a dislike as it was a large party ...... not sure how many restaurants restrict party sizes? A shame for large families that are instantly ostracised because they are "large". I think it's lovely to see generations eating together .... much better than not talking and NC etc.

“9. At breakfast the man approached the children's grandmother to say he came in peace. My OH and I were not there and did not speak to him again.”

That was decent of him.
He could have not acknowledged them at breakfast time.
But preferred to establish rapport.

Sorry zzzzz, I can't tell whether you're agreeing or disagreeing with me. And DS 7 never sleeps in. One of the joys of ADHD.

Well, that's a good outcome.

His wife probably made him sleep in the car after his performance.