AIBU to be upset/angry at older man complaining about children in restaurant.

[Wakingwillow]

Just that really. This is my first post but I've been a long time fan of AIBU. We're visiting the UK for a family event.
We're a family of 6, four kids age 11, 9 and 15 mth twins. Staying in a chain family friendly hotel for the weekend. Extended family here also.
After activities today everyone was tired so we decided to have a group family meal in the hotel restaurant. Total 7 children and 8 adults. 5 of the older children (age 8 to 11) sat at a table together next to us. All were very well behaved stayed seated, coloured pages and chatted. The twins sat with adults and made usual toddler noises but nothing too disruptive imo. We had items to keep them entertained and also took them out to lobby area several times.
We arrived at 6pm but due to under staffing there was a delay taking orders and getting food to the table. Kids were served food about 7.20 pm. Adults at 8 ish. (That needs another thread 😐)
After the toddlers had eaten my husband and I took them upstairs cleaned them up, got their pj's on then went back down with them to eat our own meal.
Just as we started eating an older man came over to our table and said that we had ruined his and his wifes night with all our noise.
I really didn't know what to say. I felt an array of emotions, embarrased, upset and finally annoyed/angry. We apologised for the toddlers being disruptive, explained there had been a long delay in them getting food and said we were doing our best to keep them occupied. I also asked him what else could we do, they had to eat to which he responded they should be feed in the room.
I'm so surprised and upset by this. I've never had this happen before and I'm usually very considerate of other diners when we're out as I'm quite shy and don't like to draw attention.
This has really upset me.
I'm just wondering what others have done / would have done in this situation.

@MaryMarkle - Exactly. I'm not a wealthy man and, this aside, actually often prefer 'simple' pub food (depending on the occasion). So if I fancy a beer and a burger I should have to expect a side order of unruly children?

Simply answering the op (which is all we have to go on) why do you seem to think this is applicable? No unruly kids are not acceptable in any establishment but that doesn't appear to be the case here

The point is sock where do you draw the line on what disturbs others and who should be able to complain about what is considered normal noise for toddlers/disabled people

As usual on this thread I feel like I'm living in a parallel universe. A case of normal child/toddler noise and behaviour has been twisted to kids running riot

That is because what the OP said sounds like it is nothing to do with kids. He did not mention the kids. So it was probably the whole group including the adults being very loud.
But the OP brought up the issue of kids, so it has devolved into being about that.

Some disabled people are disturbed by others on a pretty much continual basis. Where do you draw the line there?
You certainly don't lump toddlers and people with disabilities together.

Also anywhere I have been where there really have been kids that have been badly behaved and allowed to disturb others, there were always other kids about the same age causing no issue at all. If someone complains about your kids, and there are other kids there that no one is complaining about, the issues is clearly your kids, not someone being anti kids.

@WithAllIntenseAndPurposes - My reaction wasn't directly related to the OP's post, more to the general idea that, where there is cheap food, disruptive children should be expected.

That said, we do only have the OP's side of events. I can't imagine the gentleman who complained did so without provocation (although we'll never know, maybe he was just a serial complainer)

As for 'normal child toddler noise', this is, again, subjective in the same way that 'normal adult noise' is. If I'm in my local pub (not a food pub) then I am likely to be louder (and courser) than when I'm in a restaurant. Children need to be taught that different scenarios require different behaviour.

There is also no "normal noise" for people with disabilities. As long as a person with disabilities isn't behaving in a way that is dangerous to themselves or others and is not damaging property it is reasonable for them to stay in an eating establishment.

@MaryMarkle - Exactly (we've agreed a lot on this thread). It's the thoughtless parents who allow their children to be loud/disruptive who spoil it for everyone. Nobody notices the children sat at the table, engaging in conversation and eating their meal quietly yet they will get tarred with the same brush but many people. I must confess, I've been sat at a table in a restaurant and felt my heart sink when a family comes and sits next to me. I, like many, make an assumption as to how the situation will play out based on experience (and, quite often, I'm completely wrong and the children are perfectly behaved).

@Sockwomble - Agreed. People with 'noisy' disabilities (sorry if that's not a great term) should not be subject to the same expectations as children.

The reason that so many people take issue with noisy disruptive children is that they CAN be made to exercise control over their behaviour (and a failure to do so is almost always the result of lazy or entitled parenting). If a child is too old to understand this then it is the parent's responsibility to ensure minimum disruption to those around them or maybe decide if a babysitter is the better option*

*Before I get a reply along the lines of "Why shouldn't my baby/toddler be part of a family meal out?", if they are too young to be taught how to sit/eat/behave at the dinner table then what, exactly are they getting out the experience?

*too young...sorry that made no sense!

That's quite true, @PBo83 I've experienced this. A few years ago, DH and I took our DDs out for a meal at a pub with a whacky warehouse. Our DDs were 6 and 3 at the time, as I recall.

There was an older couple at the the table next to the one we were seated at. They gave us the evils from the moment we sat down, when our DDs hadn't done anything to indicate that they would be disruptive, and they weren't. They were making assumptions.

However, I also did wonder why, if the couple wanted a quiet meal, did they choose to go to a whacky warehouse at 5:30pm? It's hardly going to be child free, is it??

@Lizzie48 - Exactly, it's unfair on you but I guarantee that judgement had been born out of previous (bad) experiences...nobody wins.

To be honest though, why anyone without kids would goto a Whacky Warehouse is beyond me (This doesn't negate my point that bad behaviour should be accepted, just doesn't make a lot of sense).

There are 3 kinds of disruptive behaviour I have seen with kids in restaurants.
The running around as if it is a playground. If your child can not sit still at a table don't take them to a restaurant. Not only is it disruptive for others, but it is incredibly dangerous to the child when waiters are carrying hot food and drinks.

Kids screaming and shouting. Usually these kids aren't happy anyway. Why do you want to put your child through that along with everyone else?

Parents winding up kids so that they get over excited and loud, usually dads. Parent is totally to blame here. Or kids watching electronics with volume on. This is the parents fault, bring headphones.

I think if you go to a wacky warehouse, you have to be prepared to accept badly behaved kids. It is one of the few places where do I think you don't have the right to complain about other kids, unless they are bullying your kid. But the wacky warehouse is basically a kids play area where parents can get alcohol and food.

@PBo83 I don't think the situation would have arisen had the food arrived in reasonable time. And I don't think there's anything wrong with toddlers in a restaurant in pyjamas. Adults, yes.

I don't think you can just blame the food not arriving quickly. It is how you respond to it as a parent.
For example if kids are getting fractious you can say to another adult, phone me when food arrives, I am just taking kids outside to run about. Then play a game of tag with them for 20 minutes.

Precisely, PBo83 I wouldn't choose to go there for a romantic meal out with my DH. If I want some child free time, I go somewhere that has the right ambiance.

What also leads to the thinking of misbehave children is OP saying that she and her OH went up to put the toddlers in their pyjamas, therefore leaving the 11 and 9 yo with extended family they probably don't see often of they live abroad.

Why would both of them need to go up to put two kids in pyjamas and how can OP be so certain her children were not misbehaving when both parents were gone for some quite some time anyway?

The poor man was probably at the end of his rope with all the crap behaviour you have to put up with in restaurants nowadays:

Kids being allowed shout and scream and run around
Adults not bothering to keep their voices down to a reasonable level
People with loud shrieky or bellowing laughs that can be heard halfway across the restaurant
People shouting into phones

Just so many rude and inconsiderate people who don't give a damn about anyone else in the restaurant.

*The poor man was probably at the end of his rope with all the crap behaviour you have to put up with in restaurants nowadays:

Kids being allowed shout and scream and run around
Adults not bothering to keep their voices down to a reasonable level
People with loud shrieky or bellowing laughs that can be heard halfway across the restaurant
People shouting into phones

Just so many rude and inconsiderate people who don't give a damn about anyone else in the restaurant. The poor man was probably at the end of his rope with all the crap behaviour you have to put up with in restaurants nowadays:*

I'd suggest you'd be better off staying at home nowadays if that's how you feel about the rest of the human race..... people were so much better in them olden days!

Why would both of them need to go up to put two kids in pyjamas and how can OP be so certain her children were not misbehaving when both parents were gone for some quite some time anyway*

Why? Because they were awaiting their own meals and probably wanted to get down ASAP in case they arrived? They also know their own older children and could rely on them to behave for 15/20 mins while they did it?

@Charlie97 - So, in your opinion, these are all acceptable behaviours in a restaurant and anyone who disagrees should stay at home? So only inconsiderate people can go out in public and those who show some respect for those around them withdraw from society. I can say it in a million different ways but it's still a ridiculous argument.

@PBo83 you seem totally intolerant of noise, you suggest that the others in a restaurant do a voice pitch test of other eaters and if they fail it then they can't come in? No sorry your voice is too high pitched, yours too booming, your laugh too loud etc...... I'd assume a lot of empty seats in a lot of restaurants!

People so noise adverse that they find so many types of diners irritating should maybe get takeaways?

Also I particularly detest the "nowadays" remark, things in the "olden" days were different not better!

I can only assume that Charlie is one of those rude and annoying people, unable to tell the difference between normal levels of human noise and interaction, and inconsiderate behaviour that impacts unfairly on those with whom she is sharing a public space.