Tell me - is this rascist?

[PooleySpooley]

Son is mixed race. I am white as are his siblings. He has rarely experienced any racism. He has a really good relationship with his father and his family who I am not with.

He has a PT job.

He told me today that while he is working the checkout he often gets asked “where he is from” and when he says “here” the questioner will probe “originally”.

This shocked me and pissed me off because in my head the questioner is probing more because his answer is unacceptable to them because DS doesn’t look like what the questioners idea of what a British person looks like.

A very good friend says he should be encouraged to be proud of his heritage (which he is but there are many strands to that as it’s a grandparent who is Asian and he has three other grandparents) and is it ok for him to be asked this continually?

WaxMyrtle it's not the same when the balance of assumptions about race is in your favour (as it is for me, being white). And I don't mean to imply that I'm discriminated against. I'm not. But the question is not generally, where I am at least, asked because of a belief that only white people belong. It's asked because of genuine interest and, if anything, a desire to celebrate diverse origins. I'm in a big city that's a pretty liberal place in terms of the way people believe everyone is equal - the place still has plenty of structural racism, though.

sausageroll more please
I need some restrained comebacks to my Britishness being questioned with “really from/originally from/parents from”. I get really annoyed because my british identity is my sole identity, and i dont like it challenged on the basis of my skin colour, because to do that is racist. Mainly 50 year olds and older who push the question, well-to-do but not well educated or read. You cannot compress a decade of schooling (history, geography, tact) into a few sentences.

i dont identify with the country of some of my ancestors as ive never been there. People then want to know where my grandparents are from and that is too complex a conversation for strangers, as they came from different countries and empires including britain which have since restructured.

I see this both ways.
I should imagine that there are a certain element of people who ask this question as perhaps a way of making the other person uncomfortable and aware that they are different but there are also people who are genuinely interested about where the person is from and mean no offence.
I think sometimes people are hypersensitive and read into things, I personally have met so many people who have a huge chip on their shoulder and just want an excuse to have a row.
I'm sure your son is a handsome lad and I agree with the other poster that perhaps the person was trying to start up a conversation, so many people do not give others the time of day and it can be hard to strike up a conversation these days.

I am a white parent of mixed race dc (half Japanese). I consider the 'where are you from' question to be racist, definitely when it is followed up with the inevitable 'where are you from originally'.

As a white person living in the uk ive been asked where im from maybe a dozen times (usually when im travelling somewhere and my regional accent makes me stand out).

But my dc (9 and 5) are constantly where they are from (they reply with name of hometown) and 95% of the time they then get asked where they are from originally to which they then look endearingly confused and once again reply with the name of our home town. Occasionally the questioner will persist with a but where is your dad from? they once again reply with name of home town....

dh was born in england, hes british but is skin tone and eye shape lead people to believe he cant possibly be truly british - as if his ethnicity blocks him from being that.

Its frequently asked by people who are nice middle class lefties who would be shocked to be accused of racism, who think they are just making politie chit chat, but when i point out to them that my child is the only person in the room that they have felt the need to pose that question to and that my child is coincidentally also the only mixed race child in the room they suddenly look awfully sheepish

wontshare it is very awful to ask that to children and to keep probing. I agree with your post.

It is definitely racist. It was probably meant in a way where ignorant people think they are being non-racist by engaging people who they consider not to be from this country by being interested in their heritage.. but yes definitely racist and non-educated.

I think a lot of people who ask this are interested in the diversity of the origins of the people around them.

Sorry, I'm not sure I completely agree there.

Maybe, if you get chatting and it's their 6th question; but if they ask it straightaway (and especially before they even ask your name, if it's not on a badge), then they're not interested in diversity, they're just being racist and superior and expecting you to justify your reason and right to be there.

As I said in my PP, if you strike up a friendly conversation, you might ask all manner of questions about them and their family - as you volunteer similar information about yourself. However, just as you wouldn't dream of approaching a shop assistant and instantly asking "Do you have any kids?" or "How old are you?", it's equally inappropriate to ask "Where do you come from?" as an opening question.

It's amazing how many people don't understand that the UK is a multicultural, multi-ethnic country now and many non-white people are 2nd/3rd/more-generation British born. Even if the name badge has a non-traditionally British name on it, it means nothing. I'm white and in my 40s and there are many non-white people who were born in (and have lived in) this country long before I was.

I can understand how, after actually greeting them as a person and having made a little small talk, you might see the badge and say nicely "Oh, that's an unusual name?" and wait for them to volunteer "It's Ghanaian, it means 'Primrose' - I was named after my Grandmother." However, I'd expect the same person to make the same searching comment of a white person wearing a name badge saying 'Rainbow' or 'Arbuthnot'.

I get this too, I’m half Chinese but could be a variety of different ethnicities. When asked I always answer England. I was born here and only speak English!

This video sums it up perfectly.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=crAv5ttax2I

I have a slightly different take on this as I am American and live in the USA. Here, everyone is from someplace else, somewhere along the line. But far more interesting and a question I ask all the time is "what are your ethnic origins?" And that's a question that I would ask of anyone regardless of color. Of course people here are generally proud of their ancestry and ethnic roots. It's really quite interesting to see how people "self-identify" irregardless of how they "look."
My dd, who looks as white as can be, but is British, Jewish, Italian and Eastern European has a new self-identity every few years. Currently we are on Italian (complete with Italian lessons). Last year it was British, complete with awful British accent that sounded like Russell Brand on drugs. Ds has discovered that multiple citizenships ups his Tinder pull so is currently trying to discover his Jewish roots (never mind that he was brought up atheist and is still adamantly so)...Teenage boys will do anything to pull a girl!!
Also, I did want to point out that Racism is defined as "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior." I think it's unlikely that that's in the hearts of most of the people asking the question of your ds. Could I suggest that your DS redirect the question by responding, "I was born here, but my ethnic origins are....." That way it's re-framing the question for the questioners in a more appropriate way.

kisstory you sound terribly naiice -I doubt whether you have ever had the experience of OPs son.
When i was young and näive i did just that. Explain and educate. But after a quick family history for complete strangers for the 37th time it gets a little wearing, and is completely unnecessary to have to defend my stated identity. I should never have to.

I'm not hypersensitive in my opinion. If people were curious, they'd ask everybody in the room what their ethnic background was but Im usually the only one who is targeted for questioning, My accent is local so they must assume that I'm not a local because I don't look like them. That is the insulting part. I have lived in the UK for 75% of my life, hold a UK passport, was educated in the UK (and when abroad I was educated in the UK system) so consider myself British. (I renounced my mother's nationality as an adult)

I agree with the person who mentioned that it's not just white people who ask. Quite frankly it makes me feel like an outsider which is fine if I'm out of the UK travelling but frustrating to say the least on a day to day basis.

I’d think it was racist, but to be asked once could potentially be argued away as idle making conversation. The “no I mean where are you really/originally from” question is 100% racist and also rude- as someone else said, it implies that they believe him or don’t think he has the right to identify as British.

Can’t it just been seen as chit chat too? For example, I got talking to someone in the surgery a few days ago, never seen her before, asked where she was from and she replied x, which is part of our (very) small town, and I said ‘but where originally?’. I’m white, she’s white, I knew she’s wasn’t born in the town. Now I’m guessing that’s not racist. But as soon as you put someone from an ethnic origin that’s not white into the scenario, then it becomes racist.

Well, it is racist, because what the person asking means is 'You can't be English/British because you have black/brown skin. English/British people are WHITE.' It's not quite the same as asking a person with a noticeable non-local accent where they are from - if you have a strong accent that is not associated with the place you are currently living, you probably spent your childhood somewhere else. (This can apply to Northerners living in the South or vice versa, and sometimes it's because the person asking has a friend or relative from the area they think your accent is from, etc.)

Fighting fit- why did you ask where she was originally from? Do you know everyone who lives in x so knew she was new? Did she have an accent which suggested she was from elsewhere? If she had an accent was it foreign or another UK place?

I thought this was a question that mixed race people asked each other all the time - out of interest and a desire to connect. My son although Caucasian does genuinely look like he isn't and is always asked by mixed race or ethnic minority people what he is or where he's from and they think he's being arsey but we don't know why he looks different to the rest of the family.

DH and I both get the 'where are you from?' question a lot. We both have the same strong north east England accent and live in Surrey.

I'm white British and DH is Indian (moved 12 years ago and has lost his Indian accent). I don't think many ask in DH in a racist way. I answer Newcastle, DH answers India, but they will often say to him, "sorry, I was referring to your accent".

Now if anyone ever asks our mixed race DS where they are from (they don't have accents and born in Surrey), then I will judge them as being non-intentionally racist.

I get this all the time, my daughter is half Chinese her dad is from Hong Kong half white British. I’m forever asked ‘what is she’ to which I reply ‘huh? She’s a baby’ and then it’s usually followed with ‘no but she’s not English so where from’ to which I usually tell them my vagina . .

Yup, racist. Also rude and ignorant. I am sorry your lovely ds has to put up with it.

I wouldn’t say it to a stranger but I do ask about heritage. I’m white but my parents are immigrants, I grew up in London & pretty much all my friends have immigrant parents so it’s normal for me to know people of mixed heritage if that makes sense. One of my friends is of irish/west Indian heritage & gets it a lot as she looks unusual & beautiful, fair, light eyed with freckles but dark hair.

I’m mixed race and live in a seaside town in not very multicultural Devon, popular with tourists. When I’m asked ‘are you on holiday’ or have you travelled far I never really know if they are only asking because of my skin colour. Would they ask the same if I was white?
Conversely I am often mistaken as a local when I’m on holiday in various countries 🤷‍♀️

I get asked this a lot, I think it's because people genuinely can't work me out as I'm a real mix. Maybe the same with your son? If he was obviously Asian or Black there would be no questions. Not racist but rude I think. If asked where I'm from I just keep repeating the name of the city I was born in. Unless someone asks 'what is your heritage?' Then I'm happy to share,

obviously not a comparison but when I went into the world of work after Uni people would often ask me where I was from & I would say London, their reply would be “yeah but where originally”, apparently some of my colleagues had never met someone who was born, raised & lived in London 🤷‍♀️

sausageroll more please
I need some restrained comebacks to my Britishness being questioned with “really from/originally from/parents from”. I get really annoyed because my british identity is my sole identity, and i dont like it challenged on the basis of my skin colour, because to do that is racist. Mainly 50 year olds and older who push the question, well-to-do but not well educated or read. You cannot compress a decade of schooling (history, geography, tact) into a few sentences.

I'd be inclined to stick with the 'answer a question with a question' tactic.
"What's your name?
"Bob."
"No, what's your real name?
"Well, Robert."
"Yes, but what's your real name?"
"Huh? That is my real name."
"Oh! I didn't know you were German. You've got brown eyes - Germans normally have blue eyes, don't they?"
"What?! I'm not German!"
"Well, Robert's an originally German name, isn't it*?"
"Oh, er, is it? Well I'm English."
"Ah, then your parents must be German?"
"No, they're English too."
"What's your surname?"
"Pritchard."
"Aaaah, so you're actually Welsh! Your dad's called Richard, then - that's a nice name."
"No, he's called Derek. We're not Welsh."
"But you said you were called Pritchard - that's from the Welsh for 'Son of Richard'."
"Do you get to go back to Germany very often - or Wales?"
"What?! The name's been in our family for probably hundreds of years - it's just our historical family name."
"Ah, yes, same with me."
"Why does it matter anyway?!"
"Oh, well, you asked me - I assumed you were a big genealogy enthusiast. Don't you ask everybody you meet for the first time?"
"No?! What?! I'm not into family history."
"Oh? Why did you ask me, then?"
"I just thought you weren't British."
"Why would you think that? Could you not tell from my Lancashire accent?! What would it matter if I weren't British anyway?"
"You just look different from everybody else."
"Of course I do - I'm a different person from everybody else!!"
"Well, obviously! I mean, how would you describe yourself?"
"Just call me Grace - that's my name. It's from an English word that means 'grace' - but I think it might have Greek origins.

"Are you fluent in Welsh? Have you read Goethe in the original? I'll bet it reads much better than in translation, doesn't it?"

Optional extra if they still don't get it:
"Ooh, you must be well into your 50s, aren't you?** Have you got one of those over 50s plans that they keep advertising on the telly? It pays for your funeral - always worth doing when you get to your age, you never know when your time's up, do you?"
"Excuse me?! That's a really personal question - how offensive!"
"It is, isn't it - much like asking a British person for the fourth time to confirm that they are actually British and making out that everything they tell you about themselves must be lies, as if you must know them better than they know themselves."

These people need to be led into making themselves look ridiculous - otherwise, they'll never realise that what, to them, is just an innocent question, is actually an aggressive way of patronising, belittling and invalidating other people's identities.

*Almost all 'traditional' English names are originally derived from foreign cultures. Scots/Welsh & Irish names not so much, but they usually have some kind of rough equivalent in Latin or Greek; If you don't know, just guess at one - it doesn't really matter!

**Not being ageist - I'm not all that far off myself! You can just choose to focus intensely on any irrelevant personal characteristic of theirs that happens to differ from yours.

I get this all the time, my daughter is half Chinese her dad is from Hong Kong half white British. I’m forever asked ‘what is she’ to which I reply ‘huh? She’s a baby’ and then it’s usually followed with ‘no but she’s not English so where from’ to which I usually tell them my vagina . .

BOOOOOOOMMM!!!!!!!!!

That's fantastic - sometimes you just have to fight stupid with (pretend) stupid!