Tell me - is this rascist?

[PooleySpooley]

Son is mixed race. I am white as are his siblings. He has rarely experienced any racism. He has a really good relationship with his father and his family who I am not with.

He has a PT job.

He told me today that while he is working the checkout he often gets asked “where he is from” and when he says “here” the questioner will probe “originally”.

This shocked me and pissed me off because in my head the questioner is probing more because his answer is unacceptable to them because DS doesn’t look like what the questioners idea of what a British person looks like.

A very good friend says he should be encouraged to be proud of his heritage (which he is but there are many strands to that as it’s a grandparent who is Asian and he has three other grandparents) and is it ok for him to be asked this continually?

I'm slightly against the grain here and going to query, it doesn't sound like they're being discriminatory or prejudice against him or even suggesting they're superior etc,. Perhaps it's a little nosey but people are often inquisitive - I guess it's about the reason they want the information? I work with a lot of people from all over the world and it's not unusual to ask or discuss what their country of origin is and also celebrate where some bring in foods from home to share which is lovely and educational

With that in mind I've been asked a few
Times if I'm from Scandinavia as I've got that sort of blond colour hair and blue eyes - doesn't bother me being asked, never even queried if it was racist, and I don't think it ever has been

I think perhaps if people are genuinely being engaging what's the racist bit?! and in all honesty if people clam up and daren't ask questions in case they're worried about being racist then surely that in itself breeds contempt and intolerance towards others?

You can call it xenophobia and not racism but it is dog whistle xenophobia licensed by Brexit.

@originalShapes,

I think yours is slightly different I am also an expat but I imagine when people address you the conversation goes like this (imagining you live in Asia or Africa or similar)

" Oh so where are you from?"
" British"
" Oh nice, I have been to London once, a long time ago!"

I doubt when you answer " British, or wherever you are 'originally' from, people keep on banging " no but seriously, where though?" I am sure if being white isn't the norm where you live people also ask you where you are from, but I am also positive they take your answer as a fact and don't press it anymore than the initial answer.

If when abroad people asked me,

" Where are you from?" And I said " French" and they were like " Oh okay cool." I would not care at all because it's a normal question.

It bothers me when I say French and people just won't accept that as an answer.
It's like they don't trust that I could be French and I am "obviously" something else. Usually they very obviously already know the mixity and it's just so they can hear themselves say " Oh, I knew it!", I don't get it. Being mixed also come with a bunch of assumptions about my skills and abilities and the things I must like or dislike or know about just because people have pre-conceived ideas about what "people like me" are like, it's tiring, I don't want to have to disclose my background and personal story to strangers, I should be able to go to the hairdresser or the restaurant without having to discuss my skin color and family heritage with everyone and having to listen to people make unwanted comments (as nice as they might be) based on stereotypes and/or clichés they have about people with my mixed background.

I think people who say most people would be proud to talk about their background and not be offended, I am proud of my background but I am born and raised in France I have been to Africa twice as a tourist, feel everything BUT African and so when I say I am French it is me being proud of my background, it is not me wanting to hide "where I am from" or looking to be offended it is just me not wanting to have to talk about something that is almost irrelevant to who I am. It's like saying to someone whose great grand father was Italian that they should be proud of their origin and introduce themselves as Italian as much as British (even though nobody in her family has stepped in Italy since the great grand father immigrated), it's just ridiculous and nobody would expect that. Yet because my "origin" is visible I should apparently be flattered to have people take an interest and ask personal question about my background.

If I went around asking super pale white people where they are "really from" because "surely nobody is that pale around here." I would probably be insulting and causing offense.

Hard to define what is and isn't 'racist' exactly because it depends so much on context. But I'd say it isn't ok. My ancestors are from a variety of places but I'm never asked about that because I'm white, whereas BAME friends and relatives get this sort of thing a lot.

It's a form of 'othering' as other posters have said; there's an underlying implication that OP's son is fundamentally less British than a white person. And dealing with that kind of intrusive questioning is something white people rarely have to think about while BAME people are faced with it all the time - tiresome, low-level offensive, day-to-day stuff that I can imagine must really rile after a while.

I don’t think it comes from a place/intent of rascism although it is rascist if that makes sense. I think it’s ignorance.

If someone is genuinely curious, I would find a much more appropriate question to be directly asked “where is your racial heritage from?”

It is racist because as PP have said, it implies that you cannot be British if you are not white. However I do understand that most people who ask it don’t mean to be racist, they’re just curious about your ethnicity but don’t know how to phrase it.

My response to this question is to keep repeating ‘England’. Then if they persist I say ‘Well how far back do you want me to go? The Garden of Eden?!’ (Not that I believe in that).

A woman in the supermarket asked me this recently and kept saying ‘No!’ when I said ‘England’. She just would not have it.

It really puzzles me that some people are so ignorant that they can’t see how rude they are being.

It is racist, ignorant and unpleasant. Happens to me a lot and makes me feel unwelcome, self-conscious and Othered every fucking time. There’s a huge difference between asking someone ‘where are you from?’, which could be the genuine curiosity and making connections and chat-opening that some PPs have insisted it all is, and then following up with ‘no, but where are you from originally?’, in which the clear subtext is that the questioner doesn’t accept your first answer as you don’t look like their idea of someone from X.

I don’t think it’s racist but I do think it’s a bit naive and sheltered. Sounds like something an older person would say.I I’d be more inclined to say to someone “did you grow up here?” “ where are you from originally?” “Etc. But usually only if they had an accent. Otherwise I’d never presume anything.

As a white British person I haven’t encountered this type of questioning so wouldn’t want to say how people should feel about it - I can imagine it could feel tiresome and belittling, especially when a ‘first answer’ isn’t accepted. However, more generally, I think that for something to be racist there needs to be an element of negativity towards a race and this may not be the case with people who are genuinely being curious.
I teach in a very multi cultural environment and quite often ask people about their ethnic heritage- not because I want to ascertain how ‘British’ they are, but because I’m genuinely interested in their backgrounds and experiences. I certainly wouldn’t push people for information though, or challenge their responses.

I don’t think it’s ok, particularly to question his answer by saying “no, I mean originally.” If he has a local accent and has said he’s from that area, why would they think he is “originally” from somewhere else.

My (white) aunt moved to Australia when she was young, married an Australian and had kids. Her children would not say they are “originally” from Britain, nor would people expect them to, so why would someone expect a mixed race person to say they are originally from somewhere else.

I think context is very important here:

• geneva and brüssrls etc and other clearly expat communities are not in question here and completely not relevant to OPs son’s experience. If everyone around you is clearly from elsewhere, and this conversation is often made, then you are not singling out the only brown person. Therefore, in this context the question is not racist but also not relevant to OPs question.

-the lady at the doctors surgery who got chatting with a lady, in the course of which conversation she noted that, whilst she knew 90% of people in the village, she didnt know this lady ftom school. If the question is well phrased and not based on skin colour = not racist

• asking ethnic british people (with british accent) where they are really from, and what their heritage really is = rather racist tinged, could be excused for ignorance if they are very old or narrow minded.

-the lady at the supermarket who refused to accept a PPs statement that she is British and answered “no” = downright crawling-out-of-the-woodwork brownshirt-brexit racist

In these brexit times, since brexit motivation is grounded in Othering, not in any economic sense, we will hear this question more often I’m afraid.

I get asked this and so does my mother, it's not offensive. We just explain my nana was from Singapore. Why has everything got to be racist.

I grew up in Labour Britain, in London. My skin colour is not celtic but rather Italianate. I could be anything. I am British (note the semantics: not English) and in 30 years in england, mainly in London, i was never asked once where i was really from, because obviously I am British. till i went to germany where german-raised people with an ethnic heritage rarely used to identify as german, possibly due to cultural Othering, possibly due to the restrictive dual nationality rules, possibly due to the temporary nature of immigration here in the seventies

Perhaps my experience would have been different in a smaller town or different area but i find it very sad that things are changing and people have less restraint. I hope this will be nipped in the bud and i hope i am wrong.

I definitely think in the examples Linning gives that’s racism.

DH was born in England, his mother came from France & his dad is from England but has some middle eastern heritage. He’s white but people often presume he’s not “english”, whatever that is! He probably looks Maltese more than anything. So far he’s been spoken to in Czech, Portuguese, Arabic & French. His siblings are blond & blue eyed & I think it’s fascinating how genes mix together.

It is frickin’ racist.

Tne ONLY reason tne wuestion is asked is because of his skin colour and Afro hair. He has a local accent. Continuing to press the point when he says ‘here’ is the equivalent of saying “no you’re not, not really” which is excluding him.

If someone happened to say (and not in response the the tiresome ‘where are you from’ question) “my Dad was born in tne Caribbean” and someone say “which island” THAT is ‘showing in interest’, being curious, making conversation etc.

Asking an adult “did you grow up locally” starts with the presumption of inclusion but acknowledges that we all often move around.

Asking someone “where are you from” SOLELY on skin colour is racist.

It is tiresome complacent thoughtless racism and those of you wide eyed apologists for it need to apply a bit of rigour to your thinking and change your small talk.

delboysskinsandblister

Are you white though?

I was asked at school if my mixed race daughters ever needed suntan lotion by a confused teacher,she wasn't being racist or mean,we live in a very rich village with no Asian,Indian or black people

A “rich” village

WontShareMyAuPair

Exactly this.

Also his Afro type hair is from my white mother he would be there all day explaining it all - and the point is - why should he have to?

His best friend there is gay and she looks “gay” no one questions her about her sexuality as that would be outrageous so why is it ok to question a total stranger about their skin colour? It’s quite personal and rude.

I suppose it's like patting a mixed race child's hair.

It's not evil, but I'm sure it's very, very annoying. And it's objectifying poc as being for curiosity and amusement. It all comes from a long ago place and we can control what we say.

I agree with pp. If this question is asked in relation to an accent then it's fine (which I have asked people before as I'm crap with accents but interested in travel and other counties so find it interesting to know where people grew up if not in the U.K.)

If asked in relation to how someone looks then not ok, especially to a child. I don't understand why you'd ask this is you talking to anyone with a British accent in the U.K.

The amusing thing is that my other two children who are white, have a different father who is not British and they have dual nationality

TBH while perhaps misguided I doubt it is ever said with malicious intent. It is probably genuine curiosity/trying to make "polite" conversation and show an interest.

I had a friend who was born in this country but her parents are from another country/culture and I used to ask her all sorts of things. She was great about it and I loved learning about "her culture" even though she was Scottish. Absolutely no different to when I ask where people i work with are "originally" from and finding out about their history and family lives. but for some reason we want to put a "racist" slant on everything in life if it is geared towards someone with a different racial background to ours. I sometimes think we really are getting too sensitive to some things.

I often talk about where I am from and say "but my family is actually from [another part of the country]" I really wouldn't see it as a problem and thin we are too quick to label things

It is racist. Shouldn't even be up for discussion. I don't care how interested people are, the second you say 'London', 'Bedford', 'Newcastle', conversation over.
I'm originally from London. That's it.

A rich village with no black or Asian people. How very .

I think it depends on the country. If the country is a 'nation of immigrants' then probably okay to ask although rather nosy.

In Uk though foreigners were/ are expected to assimilate. So when we have and we're still asked where we're from it does have an unpleasant undertone to it.

I have developed a resting bitch face since my early 20's I realised recently. No one asks me that question anymore. Although some cheeky woman ran her fingers through my hair uninvited fairly recently.