School using dd to help support sen children

[Jammiebammie]

Rubbish title sorry, couldn’t think what else to put. I don’t think iabu but would really appreciate some input.

Bit of background, dd2 (11) is in p7 and has an anxiety disorder, she sees cahms for this. She also has cfs and does struggle a bit some times. Youngest dd is disabled and although sad to admit, it does impact on dd2s anxiety quite a lot and we are working hard to help her deal with this.

At school, dd is a great student and we’ve never had any issues with her in that respect. Shes a house captain, always has good work and is often called upon to help teachers etc.
Dd has been on the receiving end of bullying which took forever to sort with the school, but it has improved this last year.
I have had many meetings with the school for dds health and well-being, she sometimes needs to take herself off for ‘cool off times’ where she has been stressed, or finding things too difficult (we had issues with her self harming which was heartbreaking, but she seems so deal with really well atm)

Sorry for long post there, but didn’t want to drip feed.

Before Xmas, dd was asked to look after a little girl in p1 who has additional needs. This was at break and lunch times for the period of a week. Dd found this very difficult, she had to sit with her girl and make sure she ate lunch, didn’t scream and a few other things. I wasn’t happy about this as dd seemed so stressed about it, but she begged me not to phone the school, as it only lasted a week and the school holidays were looming I did respect her wishes and I just let it go.

Today she comes home in tears and has told me for the last week she has been given a little boy within additional needs to look after. This has been since last week and they want her to do it for another 2 weeks, every single break and lunch time. She has been told to tell him not to kick and hit people and to be on alert for his behaviour. He was hitting her today and spitting in her face and she has to just ‘deal with it’. She has to feed him lunch and took him to the toilet too.
She was told that there weren’t enough support teachers to help, and as a house captain she has a responsibility to help the school.
To say I am fuming is an understatement! She doesn’t want me to phone but I will tomorrow, I can’t believe they have put this on a child who needs extra support at home, and dealing with a disabled sibling this is the last thing she needs. It’s also not fair on the children who she has been asked to watch, their needs aren’t being met, dd isn’t trained to deal with any of these issues and it is so wrong and lazy of the school to ask student to take this on (I suspect there are other p7s looking after younger children but I haven’t confirmed this with dd).

Is it even legal for the school to do this? If it was my younger dd being looked after by another student and not her support teacher I think I would be just as mad, but the fact they are well aware of dd2s struggles and have plans in place for when she is overwhelmed, I just can’t beleive this.

Any ideas of how I can speak to the school to rectify this? Any legislations I can quote? I obviously won’t go in all guns blazing and will get proper facts from the school first, but surely this can’t be acceptable.

Sorry this is so long, well done if you got this far!

That is appalling behaviour from the school. It's like they don't want to discuss it. I think it's because they can't defend what they are asking the children to do. It is completely inappropriate.

Did dd have to help the boy today?

Someone has to take action and protect your dd, and sounds like school just does not care.

These issues are going to be more common unless they start funding schools.

Hope it is sorted for your Dd

That is really bad behaviour from the school, especially when they said they would get back to you. Good luck sorting it out!

This is definitely not on, it’s very unfair on your DD and I can imagine she feels very stressed.
My DD was asked to be a ‘buddy’ for a boy with anger issues (in the classroom only) from what she described it was to model ‘good listening’ behaviour. In reality it stopped her from being able to complete her own work, he verbally abused her when she tried to get him to concentrate and carry on working, he got angry and threw things st her. She was scared of him. I didn’t know about this until she got very upset one night and she’d been completely overwhelmed by it. It’s too much responsibility for a child ☹️

This is awful and wrong and yet not unheard of. There are cases of children with EHCPs which specify various adult-led interventions and because the training and experience of the adult hasn’t been specified, it’s being delivered by midday supervisors, caretakers, anyone with a pulse and a DBS.

Similar situations have included children who should “have the opportunity to be heard to read”, sitting with another child to do it. “Opportunities to model good behaviour” means they’re sat with another well behaved child.

This is the reality of SEN provision.

I am enraged on your behalf OP.

I just wanted to also add a link to a sibling camp which might be something your DD would consider. It's designed for siblings of children with health challenges. I realise it doesn't have anything to do with the serious issues within school, so not offering it as a solution, but it came into my mind and I thought it might be of interest.

www.otw.org.uk/ourcamps/

Unbelievable!!

If the head doesn't respond or engage tomorrow, I'd be escalating it to the governors and Ofsted. Possibly even social
services. Shocking behaviour from the school! Totally unacceptable.

Did your DD have to look after the boy today, OP?

www2.gov.scot/Publications/2005/08/0191408/14360

Section 12: 'Authorities must make adequate and efficient provision for each child or young person with additional support needs for whose education they are responsible.'

Which doesn't mean 11 year old girls performing toileting duties for other children, especially when they are already under pressure from their personal circumstances.

Section 13: Health and Safety

Just all of it.

Section 18: Guidelines for providing intimate care for children with disabilities.

Toileting definitely counts as intimate care in my book.

I am a HLTA in a Primary school. This isn’t fair and quite unacceptable. We might ask for a day or so for someone new but this is unacceptable.
I would ring tomorrow say she has done her bit but it is unacceptable to continue using her. Sounds like a staffing issue

@MrsJane

OP is in Scotland not England as mentioned many times during the thread.

Oh OP - I’m so sorry that (I was reading when you first posted) this hasn’t been sorted, your poor wee DD. Appalling of the school to continue in this fashion.

I’d something similar happen to me when I was in Y6 & my school began taking pupils from the local school for children with [severe] disabilities & SN on a part-time basis. Quiet, biddable, super-responsible, caring responsibilities at home following the sudden death of my mother a few months earlier (so also massively & obviously traumatised, but “I wasn’t sure what to do, so I didn’t do anything”, thanks for that class teacher, helpful). Child who shows round visitors/minds the wee ones/can be left to work alone/gets put by The “Naughty” Boy to be A Calming Influence. That Child. I was expected to mind a Y3 (let’s call her Amy, because it’s nothing like her name) who was building up - very quickly - to coming to the school full-time, including seeing to her toileting, & she couldn’t manage her tights herself. Her mother refused to have her wear long socks instead though. Because Amy wanted to wear tights “like the big girls” - & it was Wicked and Selfish of us (ah, Catholic school) to be unwilling to drop everything to get this child to the loo. Amy would pinch & scratch people when annoyed with them, but the “she doesn’t know any better” line finally got knocked on the head when one of the girl’s in her class dragged Amy’s big brother over & pretended to pinch him then when Amy went bananas yelled “see! you DO know it hurts people!” (That was a particularly unpleasant nose-blowing/wiping session once Amy’d calmed down enough to let me near her with a tissue. Oh yes, she couldn’t wipe her own nose properly, so I’d to see to that.)

So I really really REALLY feel for your daughter (I’d also not yet been diagnosed with genetic disability, so had huge issues with pain/fatigue/mobility, but was just struggling to cope with them). But my experience was 20 years or so ago. You’d not imagine it could happen now (even with the state of SEN funding) & it makes me feel slightly sick. Really hope that you get it sorted ASAP - if you think it’ll help, please reassure your daughter she’s done the right thing telling you & letting you fix it, from someone who made themselves quite stressed & sad & more-poorly by not telling their parent what was happening.

Imperfectpirouette your story is very sad, I'm so sorry.

It reminded me of having to play with a severely handicapped older girl, who would pinch my toddler sister when the adults weren't looking. They always insisted she didn't know better. I remember furiously insisting that she did know, or she would have done it in front of the adults too.

I've had this with my son. Always put with the SEN kids, because he's so good with them. I've stopped it everytime as it was taking the piss. It actually made him depressed, which is how I found out.
Last week I had to go in again. He had been put on a table at lunch time with a child who has quite a few behaviour issues.
Spitting in their food, punching, running around. No teacher watched him, it was up to the kids. Now the head teacher sits with him for some of the lunch.
It's ridiculous.

I know it's very difficult with funding, but children should never have this responsibility put on them.

Fisharesexy although I agree that your son should not be expected to act as a ta and help children with additional needs can you please not call them 'sen kids'?

My son is not a 'sen kid'. He is a lovely boy, clever and funny. He also happens to have additional needs. Yes he sometimes needs extra help which I fully expect a member of staff to provide. But he also often feels sad that he has no proper friend. He has a group of friends he is on the periphery of but no true friend. And attitudes like 'sen kids' is part of that. I'm not saying children should have to be friends with someone they don't want to be, but seeing children like mine as somehow other is not helpful.

In fact I think that's partly why I feel so cross about children having to look after other children with additional needs. It turns that child into a chore, an inappropriate responsibility rather than just another child in the class. And that is detrimental to that child being able to form friendships, something that should be achievable for every child and with background support from a member of staff if necessary.

Did your DH have any luck this morning Jammie?

hope everything went well today OP x

Oh my goodness. I would be raging too!

I cannot believe what I have just read. Good luck fighting this, for your daughters sake as well as the other kids affected.

Wishing power to your DH's elbow! Hope it all gets sorted out for your DD. (and for the little boy too)

That whole read was unbelievable. How can a school think that’s ok?! Hope it gets sorted out!