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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

School using dd to help support sen children

293 replies

Jammiebammie · 21/01/2019 16:01

Rubbish title sorry, couldn’t think what else to put. I don’t think iabu but would really appreciate some input.

Bit of background, dd2 (11) is in p7 and has an anxiety disorder, she sees cahms for this. She also has cfs and does struggle a bit some times. Youngest dd is disabled and although sad to admit, it does impact on dd2s anxiety quite a lot and we are working hard to help her deal with this.

At school, dd is a great student and we’ve never had any issues with her in that respect. Shes a house captain, always has good work and is often called upon to help teachers etc.
Dd has been on the receiving end of bullying which took forever to sort with the school, but it has improved this last year.
I have had many meetings with the school for dds health and well-being, she sometimes needs to take herself off for ‘cool off times’ where she has been stressed, or finding things too difficult (we had issues with her self harming which was heartbreaking, but she seems so deal with really well atm)

Sorry for long post there, but didn’t want to drip feed.

Before Xmas, dd was asked to look after a little girl in p1 who has additional needs. This was at break and lunch times for the period of a week. Dd found this very difficult, she had to sit with her girl and make sure she ate lunch, didn’t scream and a few other things. I wasn’t happy about this as dd seemed so stressed about it, but she begged me not to phone the school, as it only lasted a week and the school holidays were looming I did respect her wishes and I just let it go.

Today she comes home in tears and has told me for the last week she has been given a little boy within additional needs to look after. This has been since last week and they want her to do it for another 2 weeks, every single break and lunch time. She has been told to tell him not to kick and hit people and to be on alert for his behaviour. He was hitting her today and spitting in her face and she has to just ‘deal with it’. She has to feed him lunch and took him to the toilet too.
She was told that there weren’t enough support teachers to help, and as a house captain she has a responsibility to help the school.
To say I am fuming is an understatement! She doesn’t want me to phone but I will tomorrow, I can’t believe they have put this on a child who needs extra support at home, and dealing with a disabled sibling this is the last thing she needs. It’s also not fair on the children who she has been asked to watch, their needs aren’t being met, dd isn’t trained to deal with any of these issues and it is so wrong and lazy of the school to ask student to take this on (I suspect there are other p7s looking after younger children but I haven’t confirmed this with dd).

Is it even legal for the school to do this? If it was my younger dd being looked after by another student and not her support teacher I think I would be just as mad, but the fact they are well aware of dd2s struggles and have plans in place for when she is overwhelmed, I just can’t beleive this.

Any ideas of how I can speak to the school to rectify this? Any legislations I can quote? I obviously won’t go in all guns blazing and will get proper facts from the school first, but surely this can’t be acceptable.

Sorry this is so long, well done if you got this far!

OP posts:
rosablue · 21/01/2019 18:03

My jaw kept dropping further and further reading this - agree with everyone who says this is so wrong and completely inappropriate for both your dd and the other child. It would be inappropriate for all p7 children but even more so for your dd, for the reasons already mentioned.

I would go further with your complaint than others though - I would formally raise it as a double safeguarding issue - both for your ds and the other child.

Once it has been raised as a safeguarding issue and pointing out the school has failed in its duty of care for both children (and by extension, all others placed in these positions), they can’t brush it under the table but have to deal with it in a very prompt manner and their figures and actions about ‘safeguarding’ issues get formally monitored (whereas the same issues raised as ‘serious concerns’ or ‘bullying’ or whatever you think to call it, won’t).

I would also copy the head of the governors and the appropriate person at the education department at the council too. Oh and send the letter/email to the head teacher and cc it to the head of safeguarding - all schools should have their details on their website.

This scheme is in no way a buddy club or head of house duty, it is using pupils as untrained unpaid TAs - very different, very wrong.

If you have a school or class Facebook group for parents I would also be tempted to ask if others on there have had dc involved, what their thoughts are and get them to report it too so they can’t try to fob you off about being the only one that minds.

Something seriously wrong with the SLT to have introduced a scheme like this.

Almostfifty · 21/01/2019 18:07

Ofsted don't, but HMI do. And we have Parent Councils instead of Governing Bodies. They're very similar, don't understand why people nit pick.

marymarkle · 21/01/2019 18:09

I thought Parent Councils had a different less formal role than Governors?

marymarkle · 21/01/2019 18:10

They are basically a way for parents to express what they think, but they have no real power, unlike Governors.

marymarkle · 21/01/2019 18:13

And HMI will not investigate complaints about schools. They will simply say it is not their role. So no I am not nitpicking, there are important differences between Scotland and England if you have a complaint about the school your child goes to.

RuggerHug · 21/01/2019 18:13

This is so not on. OP when you're speaking to them, ask very clearly what happens if the boy or your daughter is injured. Where do they stand, being responsible for both children's care, insurance wise,legally and morally.

HungryHippoMummy · 21/01/2019 18:20

Wow this is shocking. Definitely complain, and absolutely tell her she mustn't be doing jobs like toileting him, ever.
This needs to stop, now. Also, it's not allowed forteacher

HungryHippoMummy · 21/01/2019 18:22

Sorry, accidentally pressed post! It's not ok for teachers to do break and lunch duty in one day, she certainly shouldn't be!
I'd complain formally even if they turn round and say she won't do it anymore, because otherwise they might just get another kid to do it.

jacomax · 21/01/2019 18:26

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OpiningGambit · 21/01/2019 18:34

I'm a primary teacher, and I find it astonishing!

I know your DD doesn't want you to call the school, but you're the parent and I think you should. Speak to the SENDCo or someone in SLT and have them make the situation clear. There is no way a child should be missing their break and lunch to care for a younger student.

I've never been in a school where that would happen and I'm certain it wouldn't be happening if the LA knew.

MsChookandtheelvesofFahFah · 21/01/2019 18:37

Oh gosh, 100 shades of wrong. Yes, the child definitely needs a TA but unfortunately they are being used as teachers! Confused There is no money, coffers are empty, but this is not the answer. Hope you get a good result tomorrow

JudgeRindersMinder · 21/01/2019 18:45

I’m horrified at what’s been happening...the first thing I thought of before H&S etc is the way in which your daughter is being isolated from her peer group and friends whilst she’s doing this job

lololove · 21/01/2019 18:59

Your poor girl, when is she supposed to be a little girl and enjoy some freedom and break from her responsibilities? I don't mean this as harsh as it sounds I swear.

I've been your daughter, from 8 years old I became a carer for my gran who sadly was dying and when she did we inherited my grandfather to look after (his was self inflicted through alcoholism). Before school, after school, weekends and holidays were spent looking after her with my mum and then later him. That time at school with my peers, just playing and learning was brilliant, but again I couldn't say no and ended up partnered with all the new kids and had to show them around or called upon to help the teacher in my 'free time'.

This isn't on the same level as having a SEN child to care for but it is soon wearying when all you want to do is let your friends distract you from 'the real world'.

Well done you for stepping up to help her - she will appreciate it even if she doesn't know it. Where would they be if he had a melt down and went for her(!?) Would she be covered by their insurance like a teacher or would it be brushed under the carpet and hush hush?!

crimsonlake · 21/01/2019 19:29

This cannot be right, there has to be some mistake and your daughter has taken the role too literally? If not it is a Safeguarding issue and you need to get down to the school first thing in the morning to put a stop to it and hear what they have to say.

staydazzling · 21/01/2019 19:36

its not often im left open mouthed by posts on here but dear god. Shock that is completely outrageous, id demand to see HT tommorrow.

hazeyjane · 21/01/2019 19:37

This is awful and failing both children.

The safeguarding issues surrounding toileting is huge enough on its own. There is so much wrong with this it is off the scale

hazeyjane · 21/01/2019 19:38

I'm not sure I could send my child back until it is sorted.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 21/01/2019 19:43

Jesus
That’s pretty shocking
Even for a child who has zero issues

Tread delicately and ask gently and tell gently
I think you will get more success that way

Yabbers · 21/01/2019 19:47

Our school does things like this. The older kids really enjoy it. They gain citizenship points for helping. But, if your DD isn’t able to do it and isn’t calling on support when she needs it, then speak to the school to say you don’t want her involved.

WunderBlah · 21/01/2019 19:55

Waveysnail Mon 21-Jan-19 16:30:34*

Tell the school that your dd will not be doing this type of duty from now on and tell dd your taking this decision out of her hands as you don't want her doing this. A and I speak as a mum of kids with additional needs - I would be horrified to find p7 is being made to do this

This in spades, I would be extremely disappointed in a school that did this to my disabled dc, they are shirking responsibility and ignoring your dd's needs. Put your complaint in writing and copy in LEA, CAHMS and anyone else official involved. Insist on assurance that your other child is not being one-to-oned by a child in the absence of trained paid adults.

Fucking CREATE!

marymarkle · 21/01/2019 19:57

yabbers If your school really does expect older children at 11-12 to toilet and feed other kids, then they are wrong.

hazeyjane · 21/01/2019 21:55

They gain citizenship points for helping

If my son was being supported in the way described in the op, by his peers and older children I would be extremely disappointed and worried. If I found out those supporting his needs were getting rewarded with 'citizenship points' I would be fucking furious, he is not some sort of learning experience for other kids.

Aeroflotgirl · 21/01/2019 22:09

yabbers it is one thing to help read or befriend those with special needs or shy, and another to expect an 11 year old to be an unpaid TA, and put herself at risk, and do the job that a qualified TA should be doing.

MumW · 21/01/2019 22:11

I don't see any problem with older children supporting/befriending younger children but every lunch/break, managing behaviour and toileting is not on.
You need to put a stop to it.
Go to the safegaurding lead as I think the school is abusing your DD's good nature and failing to address and support her own needs.

GeorgeTheHippo · 21/01/2019 22:12

And as a side point - are any boys being asked to care for others, or just the girls?

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