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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

School using dd to help support sen children

293 replies

Jammiebammie · 21/01/2019 16:01

Rubbish title sorry, couldn’t think what else to put. I don’t think iabu but would really appreciate some input.

Bit of background, dd2 (11) is in p7 and has an anxiety disorder, she sees cahms for this. She also has cfs and does struggle a bit some times. Youngest dd is disabled and although sad to admit, it does impact on dd2s anxiety quite a lot and we are working hard to help her deal with this.

At school, dd is a great student and we’ve never had any issues with her in that respect. Shes a house captain, always has good work and is often called upon to help teachers etc.
Dd has been on the receiving end of bullying which took forever to sort with the school, but it has improved this last year.
I have had many meetings with the school for dds health and well-being, she sometimes needs to take herself off for ‘cool off times’ where she has been stressed, or finding things too difficult (we had issues with her self harming which was heartbreaking, but she seems so deal with really well atm)

Sorry for long post there, but didn’t want to drip feed.

Before Xmas, dd was asked to look after a little girl in p1 who has additional needs. This was at break and lunch times for the period of a week. Dd found this very difficult, she had to sit with her girl and make sure she ate lunch, didn’t scream and a few other things. I wasn’t happy about this as dd seemed so stressed about it, but she begged me not to phone the school, as it only lasted a week and the school holidays were looming I did respect her wishes and I just let it go.

Today she comes home in tears and has told me for the last week she has been given a little boy within additional needs to look after. This has been since last week and they want her to do it for another 2 weeks, every single break and lunch time. She has been told to tell him not to kick and hit people and to be on alert for his behaviour. He was hitting her today and spitting in her face and she has to just ‘deal with it’. She has to feed him lunch and took him to the toilet too.
She was told that there weren’t enough support teachers to help, and as a house captain she has a responsibility to help the school.
To say I am fuming is an understatement! She doesn’t want me to phone but I will tomorrow, I can’t believe they have put this on a child who needs extra support at home, and dealing with a disabled sibling this is the last thing she needs. It’s also not fair on the children who she has been asked to watch, their needs aren’t being met, dd isn’t trained to deal with any of these issues and it is so wrong and lazy of the school to ask student to take this on (I suspect there are other p7s looking after younger children but I haven’t confirmed this with dd).

Is it even legal for the school to do this? If it was my younger dd being looked after by another student and not her support teacher I think I would be just as mad, but the fact they are well aware of dd2s struggles and have plans in place for when she is overwhelmed, I just can’t beleive this.

Any ideas of how I can speak to the school to rectify this? Any legislations I can quote? I obviously won’t go in all guns blazing and will get proper facts from the school first, but surely this can’t be acceptable.

Sorry this is so long, well done if you got this far!

OP posts:
JanisJoplin73 · 21/01/2019 22:18

This is not at all fair on your daughter or the children she is asked to look after as they should have a LSA or TA doing this.

WunderBlah · 21/01/2019 22:23

The situation described by OP is not befriending, nor is it a sexist issue. The child is describing the job of a one-to-one teaching assistant, a job which is considered to require training, experience and a salary. People not old enough to have an NI number should not be doing it for free!

www.indeed.co.uk/One-One-Teaching-Assistant-jobs

DianaPrincessOfThemyscira · 21/01/2019 22:33

Jesus, this is awful.

OP I agree with a previous poster who said you need to take this out of your daughter’s hands and be very clear to her you are doing it.

I’m furious on your behalf.

nellieellie · 21/01/2019 22:37

I was all ready to say YABU, as I think it good for children to help others. But at this intensity, and with a clearly difficult child, this is unacceptable and, frankly a massive abuse of authority. She is to prevent a child being violent to others? How? And why should she be placed in the position of being assaulted herself. No. I would not send my child to school unless they promised that this would not continue. I would get a written account from my child as to all the occasions she had been assaulted, the response of teachers when she tried to get help, the affect on her, her anxiety, and I would make a formal complaint, attaching that account, stressing that this constitutes a massive failure in their duty of care, both to her, and by trying to delegate their duties as teachers/tA to an 11 yr old, to the boy with SEN as well. I would point out that it is the 21st century, not the 19th, that child labour is outlawed.
I would conclude by adding that you will seek legal advice should an appropriate response not be forthcoming by close of day.
Just outrageous.

LiquoricePickle · 21/01/2019 23:36

I would be utterly livid.

They couldn't have screwed this up more if they'd tried.

Original poster
Jammiebammie · 22/01/2019 08:35

Sorry for not replying again last night, the questions posted my lalala are exactly what I was after, thank you.

I’m glad most of you are finding this as baffling as I do, I am calmer today thankfully so will be able to discuss with a clear head.

Dd was asked, and said yes, but as I said before she’d be too scared to actually say no to a teacher! Apparently she was told it would look good on her ‘portfolio for high school’ wtf?
She’s really worried about going in to school today, but I’ve explained to her the issues I have about this and why it’s wrong, I’ve told her to say that she is not going to be helping the boy today and to let them know I will be calling to explain why.

(For those asking, p7 is the final year of primary school, dd is 11)

I’ll update with what the school say.

OP posts:
AlisonW1982 · 22/01/2019 08:48

Personally OP I think this has gone too far already - speaking from personal experience, I'd find it even harder to deliver that message if I were her. I'd try and get it in writing, asap, all the problems/risks here, and hand deliver in person while requesting an urgent f2f meeting. I know it might be logistically tough but this is so far beyond acceptable it needs to kick in more blunt protection for your DD. She needs to know you've got her back on this, unequivocally.

SleepingStandingUp · 22/01/2019 08:56

I misunderstood and thought thry were in secondary school, which was bad enough but to expect a little girl to care for a what, 5 yo Inc feeding and toileting if bloody ridiculous. Of course she's going to find it hard to say no to the guilt tripping teacher!!

DS has a 121. I'd be really very angry if this were being fobbed off into a child so the teachers could have a break from him, which is what it is.

Good luck today OP, deep breaths.

TrumpsAreFarts · 22/01/2019 09:00

Good luck.

Emelene · 22/01/2019 09:13

Good luck! This doesn't seem right at all, your poor DD x

notapizzaeater · 22/01/2019 09:18

Your poor Dd - I bet they picked her as they knew she wouldn't say no.

nellieellie · 22/01/2019 09:20

Good luck, don’t mean to be critical but it will be very hard for your daughter to be the one to say she is not doing this. Hopefully you called first thing......?

AlisonW1982 · 22/01/2019 10:28

Forgot to add but this was a huge red flag:

she was told it would look good on her ‘portfolio for high school

This is why women end up being unpaid, undervalued carers : we are taught from a young age that being kind, caring, selfless to our own unhappiness and detriment is normal.. even if it's not in the best interests of the person needing support.
If your DD's school is happy not only to communicate that message now, but actively reinforce it.... God help her if she ends up with a partner (of either sex) or marries into a family where caring for a vulnerable family member comes with huge pressure and sacrifice, to her own cost.

We really need to fight against bringing up girls in this way, and it's particularly disgusting that it's a school that has set her up like this.

MrsJayy · 22/01/2019 10:46

Of course she is going to say yes kids usually do because teacher said... your Dd is feeling bad because her teacher has high expectations and she will think she is doing wrong or letting everybody down, I had a mature child sensible blah de blah but teachers forget they are still emotionally their age and force responsibility on them and expect them to cope . anyway sorry for waffiling good luck with school your poor Dd.

MrsJayy · 22/01/2019 10:47

And what Alison said

Quantumblue · 22/01/2019 10:57

This is wrong on so many levels. I hope you can get your points across forcefully and DD can go back to being a child.

vinegarqueen · 22/01/2019 12:19

It's very bad practice on the part of the school - they may have used their SEN money on other things and have now put an exploitative buddy system in place to cover the cracks. Your DD may be suffering from being too good at her ”job” - she was good at it so they have further put pressure on and exploited her good nature and talent. I hope you phoned, as when I was in teacher training we were actively encouraged to sit ”nice girls” who wouldn't complain next to boys with behavioral issues to support them. It was unbelievably unfair but it goes on all the time in schools as they are underfunded and they resort to using students as resources.

IchFliegeNach · 22/01/2019 12:28

No. Not ok.
I am a teacher (secondary) and have seen this happen - the 'lovely, caring' girl in y7 'helping' the child with additional needs.

2 things:

  1. This will have an impact on any child's education. No other child is their responsibility in school. Teach her how to say no to being put on by others or this will get worse.
  2. The child with additional needs is not getting the support they deserve from a trained professional.

We were actually told in training about an SEN child with v complex needs to 'always sit him beside Jane and let her leave class 5 mins early with him to get to the next lesson'. Jane ended up being called out of class to help when he had a melt down, spent all her breaks and lunchtimes caring for him! I refused to let it happen in my lesson. How unfair on both children.

You are doing the right thing OP: stand your ground.

Original poster
Jammiebammie · 22/01/2019 12:36

I completely agree with everything here, especially what alison has said, it reiterates my issue that dd is under pressure with her sister at home too, which makes it worse.

I ended up giving a brief note in with dd today as she didn’t want to say to the teacher, I basically wrote that she wasn’t going to be doing it at all, and I want them to call me to discuss.

I’ve phoned twice today, and sent an email, and no reply so far. I’m hoping so much that they haven’t made her do it today! I can’t go in to school as youngest dd is bed bound just now but I can promise I will make myself heard over this.

OP posts:
Corkleg · 22/01/2019 12:39

That’s terrible communication on top of everything else.

Thehop · 22/01/2019 12:49

Well done OP, let’s hope you get to speak to someone soon.

SleepingStandingUp · 22/01/2019 13:23

Which implies DD isn't exaggerating. If school had a note and thought "what IS she talking about" I imagine you'd get a very quick call telling you that hasn't happened

SusanWalker · 22/01/2019 13:31

They're not calling you because they know it's indefensible.

Marcipex · 22/01/2019 13:36

I'm interested in your update too. Id like to see them try to justify this.
I also think your dd was chosen because she's too polite to complain.

lalalalyra · 22/01/2019 13:46

Glad the list was helpful Jammie

The thing is many many schools have a system of P7's as monitors or buddies. It is a good system when it works well. However, it's got to be voluntary - properly "if you want to do this put your name down" voluntary - and it has to be appropriate. the child needs one-to-one adult care and a P7 isn't an appropriate stand in.

Hopefully the no reply is because the HT or a member of management is hitting the roof with the creator of this scheme. Although it's probably more likely that there's a panic situation going on as they fear an official complaint going in.

I didn't realise you were in Scotland. Any complaint would go to the Head Teacher, then if it needed escalating it would be SPSO you'd speak too. They'd either deal with it or direct you where to go with it.

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