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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

School using dd to help support sen children

293 replies

Jammiebammie · 21/01/2019 16:01

Rubbish title sorry, couldn’t think what else to put. I don’t think iabu but would really appreciate some input.

Bit of background, dd2 (11) is in p7 and has an anxiety disorder, she sees cahms for this. She also has cfs and does struggle a bit some times. Youngest dd is disabled and although sad to admit, it does impact on dd2s anxiety quite a lot and we are working hard to help her deal with this.

At school, dd is a great student and we’ve never had any issues with her in that respect. Shes a house captain, always has good work and is often called upon to help teachers etc.
Dd has been on the receiving end of bullying which took forever to sort with the school, but it has improved this last year.
I have had many meetings with the school for dds health and well-being, she sometimes needs to take herself off for ‘cool off times’ where she has been stressed, or finding things too difficult (we had issues with her self harming which was heartbreaking, but she seems so deal with really well atm)

Sorry for long post there, but didn’t want to drip feed.

Before Xmas, dd was asked to look after a little girl in p1 who has additional needs. This was at break and lunch times for the period of a week. Dd found this very difficult, she had to sit with her girl and make sure she ate lunch, didn’t scream and a few other things. I wasn’t happy about this as dd seemed so stressed about it, but she begged me not to phone the school, as it only lasted a week and the school holidays were looming I did respect her wishes and I just let it go.

Today she comes home in tears and has told me for the last week she has been given a little boy within additional needs to look after. This has been since last week and they want her to do it for another 2 weeks, every single break and lunch time. She has been told to tell him not to kick and hit people and to be on alert for his behaviour. He was hitting her today and spitting in her face and she has to just ‘deal with it’. She has to feed him lunch and took him to the toilet too.
She was told that there weren’t enough support teachers to help, and as a house captain she has a responsibility to help the school.
To say I am fuming is an understatement! She doesn’t want me to phone but I will tomorrow, I can’t believe they have put this on a child who needs extra support at home, and dealing with a disabled sibling this is the last thing she needs. It’s also not fair on the children who she has been asked to watch, their needs aren’t being met, dd isn’t trained to deal with any of these issues and it is so wrong and lazy of the school to ask student to take this on (I suspect there are other p7s looking after younger children but I haven’t confirmed this with dd).

Is it even legal for the school to do this? If it was my younger dd being looked after by another student and not her support teacher I think I would be just as mad, but the fact they are well aware of dd2s struggles and have plans in place for when she is overwhelmed, I just can’t beleive this.

Any ideas of how I can speak to the school to rectify this? Any legislations I can quote? I obviously won’t go in all guns blazing and will get proper facts from the school first, but surely this can’t be acceptable.

Sorry this is so long, well done if you got this far!

OP posts:
BarbaraRoyale · 21/01/2019 16:44

this is extremely worrying , your poor daughter

ChrisjenAvasarala · 21/01/2019 16:44

Also, ask them for their complaints procedure in the first email, so they know you're being serious about this.

SaturdayNext · 21/01/2019 16:45

This is in fact incredibly irresponsible in relation to the children she is looking after. If they need to be supervised at breaktimes, the school needs to sort that out: they can't just fob it off onto the older children. If the school won't sort this out, I'd suggest you take it up with the governors. I know schools don't have adequate funding for SEN, but this is 100% not the answer to the problem.

Dishevelled09 · 21/01/2019 16:51

I have a daughter with CFS and wouldn't be happy if she was asked to do this. The extra emotional pressure can cause an otherwise stable sufferer to have increased symptoms and if you have medical letters I would quote these re levels of activity. Lunchtimes are for spending with peers, which is important for her. I know that schools are seriously underfunded but that isn't your daughters problem.

Original poster
Jammiebammie · 21/01/2019 16:52

Thanks everyone, really reassuring reading these, and a few points I hadn’t considered.

Dd didn’t tell her teacher why she didn’t go at lunch, I wish she was more assertive tbh but I can understand why she’s not.

She didn’t go into the boys toilets, she took the boy to the disabled toilet and stood outside while he used it. She said she went in to help wash his hands and do his button up and flush the toilet for him.

I’m actually really upset for the wee boy too, I can’t imagine his parents/carers would be happy with this arrangement either, I wonder if they even know about it.

OP posts:
TheVanguardSix · 21/01/2019 16:52

Heavens above that’s madness. I work as an ‘LSA
/midday supervisor/ don any hat’ kind of role at an autism unit of a mainstream school. I shadow the ASD kids throughout lunch and during play. Some SEN kids have real motor skills issues/movement disorders. One of them choked at the lunch table the other day. He has swallowing difficulties. Another broke his leg right in front of me as he had a total meltdown which led to him tearing around at speed and falling. ASD kids tend not to listen once they’re in an inconsolable state. They can be great rule followers and tend not to be manipulative. But when they get upset, it can be ‘all systems fail’.
What would your poor DD do in this case? I’m a 46 year old mother of 3 with one child on the spectrum. I get burnt out after a difficult two hours with my troops. I can only begin to imagine how stressed and overwhelmed your DD is! This is just wrong on so many levels.

She’s not a childminder. A buddy system is a totally different kettle of fish and your DD shouldn’t feel like she’s duty-bound towards this child, bless him (I don’t mean to sound harsh towards him- he’s being let down by the staff, tbh).

Original poster
Jammiebammie · 21/01/2019 16:54

dishevelled they have letters from dds consultant stating she could do reduced school hours, no homework, not pe if she is struggling - so they are well aware she shouldn’t be taking on extra tasks. Sorry your dd has cfs too.

OP posts:
sizzledrizz · 21/01/2019 16:54

If the Sen child needs help to not kick, then this is a health and safety issue. Do you know the boy's parents, doubt they are aware of this.
You must phone the school and put a stop to this, email and ask for a meeting. Speak to the senior

Drum2018 · 21/01/2019 16:54

I am actually shocked that this is even a thing. No child should be asked to mind another child with extra needs for one break time, let alone weeks of break/lunch. I'd be at the school for drop off in the morning to tell her teacher that she will not be doing it and then request a meeting through the secretary to ask in what universe they thought this arrangement was ok. Do not be fobbed off with bullshit about it helping your dd in some way. It clearly isn't and in any case it should have been run by you first.

sizzledrizz · 21/01/2019 16:54

SENCO that should say. If there not enough support staff, the SENCO should support

Drum2018 · 21/01/2019 16:55

As regards the boys parents, I'd be insisting that the school tell them if they are unaware.

ReaganSomerset · 21/01/2019 16:59

Doing up his buttons after using the toilet? If she's over 10 (no idea what p7 means, sorry!) that's a dangerous thing for her to be doing, legally. I'd potentially report all this to Ofsted.

Isleepinahedgefund · 21/01/2019 17:01

I know this is particular issue because your DD has additional needs and the extra stress isn’t good for her, but that’s not the only reason this isn’t ok. It’s not ok for any of the children to be used this way.

Please write to the chair of governors about it, it’s disgraceful for them to be doing this. A PP mentioned a child breaking his leg because of a meltdown - how would a child feel if that was the kid they had been told to buddy up with?!

Absolutely outrageous. I know schools are struggling but this is not the answer.

BlackeyedGruesome · 21/01/2019 17:01

fuck that for a game of soldiers.

volunteer children for 1 session a week, maybe, with adult supervision.

speak to them asap.

SusanWalker · 21/01/2019 17:03

So they're using your daughter, who already has enough on her plate, as an unpaid unqualified member of staff.

As a mum to a child with ASD and an NT child i am horrified by this on both levels. My NT child has had a lot to deal with over the years too and I see school and a chance to hang out with her friends as her bit of normal. She does sometimes hang out with a girl with ASD but she does that as a friend and because she wants to.

If my DS was being supervised by another child I would be furious. If he was injured or injured someone else because he wasn't being properly supervised there would be hell to pay. It's a health and safety failure, but it also fails the child who should be being properly supported to form friendships with his classmates.

Calmdown14 · 21/01/2019 17:04

Agree it's not right but before you go nn guns blazing, is it possible your daughter as a lovely conscientious girl has taken the instruction to help a little too literally? Did the school intend for her to put so much effort in or take such responsibility? Could it be they asked her to act in more of a buddy role but being used to a child with additional needs, she's gone above and beyond to her own detriment? Even if this isn't the case, you could approach it with the school in this way as "im just checking what's been asked of her" and then raise your concerns

OopsInamechangedagain · 21/01/2019 17:07

I understand why your DD doesn't want you to contact the school about this issue but as the adult it's up to you to make that judgement. I hope you get things sorted, your DD sounds lovely.

biscuitmillionaire · 21/01/2019 17:07

She has been told to tell him not to kick and hit people and to be on alert for his behaviour. He was hitting her today and spitting in her face and she has to just ‘deal with it’. She has to feed him lunch and took him to the toilet too.

She has to feed him lunch and take him to the toilet? Shock Shock Shock
This is all absolutely appalling. The difference between this and a buddy system, which my DD has been involved in, is that a buddy system is voluntary, you aren't forced to do it.

Dishevelled09 · 21/01/2019 17:09

Jammie I hope you get it resolved soon and your daughter gets to enjoy her time at school, I'm gobsmacked tbh. This is wrong on so many levels, god knows who came up with that solution. My daughter's good at the moment and I don't post too often but wanted to let you know there is someone who understands what extra pressure can do to a CFS sufferer.

Fightingfit2019 · 21/01/2019 17:14

No offence meant by this OP, but they are using a child who could really need the break and have fun and be a child, to undertake the work of a qualified TA.

You need to explain to dd that you have to speak to the school, that this is an adult matter that has to be talked through parent to teacher. Maybe say ‘you know I wouldn’t be happy if I found that this was happening to your dsis, so maybe this little boys parents won’t be happy either’. Explain that this is a parent matter and has nothing to do with her getting into trouble.

For what it’s worth, I really feel for your dd and the little boy. If they are short staffed they need to call in agency staff.

Ethel36 · 21/01/2019 17:18

This is appalling. I used to work as a Ta in a secondary school also college for disabled students. It was hard work, but I got paid for it. The school actually receives an extra amount for disabled students. So I'd want to know why they're not paying for support?

BusySnipingOnCallOfDuty · 21/01/2019 17:21

I was a TA with autistic kids and kids with behavioural problems and adhd. I was paid for this. There would be serious consequences if I wasn't given time for the toilet and to eat. It was very hands on but you had the support of the other stuff at the base.

And your poor daughter is being left alone to deal with this!!!

I have cfs and fibro, I know this scenario isn't the same but I became a mum on my early twenties and was considered confident and outgoing (I pretended, I still do it now if I'm in an interview for anything) but it's hard from the truth. I had no family support at the time and never got a break, was shattered and wasn't diagnosed properly either. I was repeatedly pushed into mentoring other young nervous mums by my support network at a children's centre. I was too nervous to say anything. It broke me.

Please step in now.

Myimaginarycathasfleas · 21/01/2019 17:23

It's highly unsatisfactory for any child to be given this sort of responsibility. I would be writing to the governors.

LiftedHigh · 21/01/2019 17:24

@OP as the parent of a SEN child....i do not want students used as resources. Thats unfair and inappropriate to both of them. Absolutely complain! My non-SEN children aren't support staff, neither is yours.

AlpacaLypse · 21/01/2019 17:25

.