To ask what's wrong with my son

[stressedmum0f3]

He is 4.5yr old.
Since July 2017 (when his sister started crawling) he has become obsessed with her and obsessed with being horrible to her.
I am crying as I write this so please be kind.

• he will put toys in front of her, wait until she goes to get it then snatch it away
• shut her hand in doors
• make her spit on stuff
• 5 toys that he got for Christmas he has broken (his reason, he wanted to)

And now his new thing he is hellbent on waking her up, at 4am this morning he picked up two toys clashed them together and said her name multiple times, then she woke up crying. When I went through to his room, he dived back into bed pretending to be asleep. I have a 7 month old now too and the behaviour is transferring onto her. (He will throw toys at her in her high chair) or he will bang toys off the floor to get her to look at him. If she does happen to look he will run away. And the other day he has started to pick the wall off I am exhausted, I feel like I'm doing something wrong as nobody in the history of the world seems to experience this. I don't think we are all ever in the same room for too long as I cannot cope. I don't know what to do anymore. Does anybody have any advice?

This is a horrible situation for you OP. But some of your responses sound like you want people to agree with you that your son is awful - awful to live with, maybe, but there's got to be a lovely boy hiding in there somewhere.

You're too tired and depressed to have the emotional or physical capacity to get proper perspective on this right now. Find some time for yourself, even if it's only going for a walk round the block by yourself in the evening, having a bath or a quick coffee with a friend. You can't be in this situation 24/7 without going mad.

I'd also be seeing a doctor about whether you're depressed and if there's help for that. Keep asking for help from HV/SS too, don't downplay what your son is doing and the impact on you. There might also be charities nearby that could help?

The thing is, nothing you do seems to work so you've lost all confidence and think there's nothing you can do to change the situation. Not true, you're the boss but you're not going to get on top of this overnight. Picture your ideal lifestyle in this house with these kids, then start working towards it. Choose something simple like putting shoes in a particular place or washing hands before eating and simply make the kids stick to it. Then pick another habit/rule, and then another.

The more confident you are in your abilities, the more your son will recognise you're in control and feel more stable. It's not about being a tyrant, it's about being the boss so he's free to be a kid. You need to be kind to yourself, firm with the kids, and find a way to feel calm.

Your a good mum op. Just keep swimming

Well done op, I'm really impressed that you've stuck with this thread, a lot of posters would have flounced and ignored the advice.

I haven't read all the way to the end of the thread but from what I have read so far I think this is way more than just a parenting issue.

My sister has a DS who is diagnosed with autism (alongside other issues), the description you have given about how he breaks things and his responses sound almost identical to my nephew. We used to have a verb for broken things..... things were Jack'd ( name changed) . It happened so regularly that most things in my sisters house were broken. Dnephew did not ( and still does not) know his own strength. His cot had to be secured to the wall as a 2 year old as he would bounce it across the room.
There are solutions to some of this - sturdy furniture ( with cabinets for tv's which are secure), but the underlying problem needs attention.

When ( if) you are able to make contact with a hc professional you need to take a list of all the behaviours he is exhibiting ( don't rely on remembering ) and how it is affecting the family. I also think you need to ask for help for yourself you are at real risk of Pnd and the fact that you say you are crying most days ( unsurprisingly given what you are coping with) means you also need help now.

Be kind to yourself op

OP that’s what he needs. Some one to one time with you playing. He’s still little, it’s important that he learns to play by himself that comes with time, but it’s also important that you and dad play with him. He still needs to be shown how things are done, how things work, what pieces go together, how to build something. It’s also important for your relationship.

I have rtft and just wanted to say it sounds like such such hard work. And well done OP for keeping on. x

Just wanted to mention that I have a 4.5 yo girl and she is not behaviourally difficult at all. BUT if she gets up in the morning and wants me, and I'm busy with little ones and don't go to her, she immediately is angry, hurt and jealous- I can see it switch on. She whinges, acts up, won't do as she is told.

Two minutes- literally only that - is all it takes of focused attention and she is much calmer and happier. I think of it as the investment 2 mins and plan my morning - when baby was littler I would creep away from baby to wake up the oldest one first, it feels painful as you need the sleep so bad!! and seems like you are waking them for no reason just to have a second with them without the others there. But the whole morning goes better if I do that.

You could try working out where to fit in some tiny 2 minute attention periods for him? What would work in your crazy busy day?

I appreciate you are shattered and doing these experiments feels like too much. You need more help from DH, even to get the energy to start.

Get an Emergency gp appointment today. Write it all down before you go. Tell the gp honestly all you have said here and that you need help urgently and by that you mean now, today. Or you can phone your local children's services and tell them you need someone from the assessment team out today.

I would try this especially if your DP is around to help part of today.

My Mum had a hysterectomy - she had restrictions for months about what she could lift which obviously with a baby and young children would be impossible. Took a year for her to feel recovered. One of the Mum's at school had one - again took a year for her to feel okay - and her girls were around 8 - she says it massively contributed to her break up with her DP the girl’s father - couple of month in her was getting frustrated she wasn't back to normal.

I think basiclly you need some support - and I think you do need to go to the GP about your health and get checked for depression as well.

Well done OP. Jigsaw sounds like a good idea. He wont completely change overnight and may end up in throwing/breaking something but definitely sounds like a positive step! Some quiet 1:1 time with you sounds like what he needs. Good luck!

If you are in Scotland OP and anywhere near Edinburgh, Kirkcaldy or Dundee, then a place called The Yard is a total life saver.
www.theyardscotland.org.uk/

OP instead of looking at all the negative behaviour that ds displays today, try and look at all the positive things he does no matter how small, and see how many things he may have accomplished that you previously overlooked as you were focusing on the bad behaviour.

Because it hurts people might only be words to him. DS 7 doesn't know what it feels like to be hit or kicked, he says, so he doesn't see any reason not to do it to others.

Don't really have much to add to the other posters but just wanted to say that I'm rooting for you OP, kudos to you for sticking to the thread and trying your hardest to turn things around. You are a great mum. You just need to find a few new strategies to help your DS through this. Big hugs.

And when he came down stairs this morning, before even saying morning he picked up a toy, threw it at my young dd sitting in her bouncer.
It's things like this I don't get. I can't remove all the toys because then my dds have nothing to play with

One of them you were changing and one was in the bouncer. Your dds were not playing with the toys so you don’t need them out.

As I said before you have to remove any trigger points.

Just because you are changing a baby it doesn’t mean you can’t say hello to him.
Just because you are bf doesn’t mean you can’t interact with him.

Yes you have tried everything before but your Ds is only 4.5 and he isn’t old enough for you to have tried everything for a significant amount of time.

I think you are expecting too much from him.
Like a pp said expecting him to come down and sit whilst you attend to your dd is too much.
He needed to get your attention and did exactly what gets you to focus on him.

Everyone who is saying he is autistic or has ADHD, even if op had a diagnosis what exactly would change.
Telling the Ds he is autistic or has ADHD doesn’t mean things will get better.
Nothing will change until op does.

Oh cuspish, it drives me mad. Busy body relatives telling me to do this or that, I say that won't work for him, I'm prepared to bet the dog that he's got ADHD, they don't listen. They're convinced he's just an energetic little boy.

I agree with looking at the positives. "You're being really lovely to DD today" and give him a hug.

oliversmumarmy

Yes, a diagnosis of some developmental delay (that may eventually lead to a diagnosis of some sort of SEN, neurodiversity) absolutely does not change the fact that the OP needs to implement boundaries, routines, learn positive parenting techniques and strategies that can help wither child.

It also won't change the fact that the woman is likely depressed, struggling with 3 kids under five, with very little support, significant health issues and a lack of space.

BUT it may mean that she will have more professional support in working out what positive parenting techniques and strategies will work and that she has an area to research, she can join groups and communities that will understand and support her and that support will be put in place (if she fights for it) at school.

One thing for sure is berating a woman at the end of her tether who is very likely depressed is not helpful. Nor is blaming everything on her poor parenting.

The reality of the situation is very likely to be complicated and a combination of factors. Many of us reading this thread have children who have various SEN and are saying that her son's behaviour rings bells with us, and we are advising her appropriately. I don't think anyone has said that "oh he's likely ADHD,autistic, dysraxic, so absolve yourself of any responsibility love and carry on exactly as you are as it's not your fault".

And infact if this boy's behaviour has an element of SEN to it, then ALL THE MORE NEED for boundaries, strategies and positive parenting. But there should also be a recognition that many parenting strategies that work for neurotypical children DO NOT WORK for those with developmental delays or SEN.

Enough of the tough love.

(although I do suspect that the OP is really very strong indeed and can take it. I suspect she'll get through this and thrive. THINGS WILL GET BETTER OP. Keep going)

OP there is a huge positive that you can take away right now. Your sons behaviour is highly predictable, therefore you can be very proactive and implement strategies to deal with them before they occur.

In an ideal world, all children would be biddable and laid back. For those of us with challenging children, the very notion is laughable.

When they are all in bed tonight - sit down with your partner and write up a list of all his predictable triggers. Then decide between you, what steps you can take to either eliminate or manage those situations when they occur. Write down standard phrases that your son will understand, practice saying them on each other. I think this would really help you.

Yes Olivers but if he does have autism or ADHD, the OP can look up strategies she can use, and CAMHS will be able to help with that too. That's why I want a diagnosis, so people can teach me how to deal with DS, and teach him to control his impulses. Also because school might realise that one size of behaviour policy doesn't fit all. Giving him a reflection sheet for something he doesn't know how to stop himself doing is just sinking his self esteem even lower.

OP, you've done really well to stick with this thread - I think everyone can see you really care for your family and it's a much tougher situation than most of us could face.

Take the great advice you've received already - set him up to succeed. Have the food ready for him in the mornings, even if it's a case of giving him cornflakes constantly to keep him occupied while you look after your other two. Be very consistent and try not to let his behaviour bother you. Parenting is a long road, some of the most 'difficult' children I know are now the loveliest - but it took a long time for the parents with consistent parenting to get them there. It might be several weeks or months before you see big improvements but stick with it. Keep up the opportunities for him to be good (one on one attention, activities set up for him when you can't give him your undivided attention, maybe give him helping jobs like handing out raisins or something to your other two), you'll both really benefit from this.

Don't worry if the punishments don't seem to be working, stick with it. There is lots of time to turn this around, you have a lot on your plate but it won't take much to get to a better place. Have a bit of faith in your DS and yourself.

I know lots of posters mean well by suggesting he may have a disorder, but as a professional in this, and a parent too, I'd say it is just as likely he doesn't.

He is showing challenging behaviour, but as I've said over and over again that it is too easy to suggest things like development delay, ASD, dyspraxia, dyslexia, etc.

I used to assess children for some of these, and work with them. I've read dozens of psychs reports on children with these conditions and worked with their parents.

The violent behaviour from him can be a form of extreme jealousy. His lack of language and verbal skills can- and I'm sorry to say this- are more likely to be down to never having been read to, or engaged in meaningful conversations with adults.
These are the foundations for language development.

I know posters mean well, but unless you are professionals and trained to assess, please don't try to label a 4 yr old.

It might even be several years of consistency.

I still have to tell my two EVERY FUCKING DAY

Stand on the floor, not the furniture

Hands are not for hitting

Eat with cutlery

Go back to sleep until you see a 7 on your clock

Only food goes in your mouth

etc etc etc

It's just second nature to me now.

jinglinghellsbells,

I have not read anyone here say that "oh he's likely SEN, so therefore you don't need to try to change, just give him a lable and all is OK". Quite the contrary, people have been saying that if part of the reason for his challenging behaviour is because of a developmental delay , ALL THE MORE REASON for the OP to implement boundaries, strategies etc.

and yes of course it's totally possible that his behavioural issues stem from other issues. and it's also COMPLETELY OBVIOUS that noone on this thread can know the truth, diagnose or "label" this child over the internet.

As a professional though I would hope you'd realise the importance of early intervention and support for children/parents with SEN.

And the importance of diagnosis in order to open doors to support and help families to find appropriate ways to help their children.

It's quite insulting to those of us with children who have SEN to call a diagnosis a "label"

@JinglingHellsBells I have a background in working with those with challenging behaviour and how to implement positive behaviour strategies.

I have a friend with a little girl who’s only 4, and has a brother that’s 3. Mum is convinces that something is wrong with her child. She won’t listen, she’s always naughty, she hits her sister, she throw things ans so on.

Yet the little one is in reception and they’ve said there is no problem. I’ll see her and she will say she’s been naughty all morning, she won’t listen, and now she’s ignoring me. I’ll ask the little girl to come and sit on my lap, and i’ll ask her questions have you been to school this week, what fun things have you done and so on. I’ll say shall we read a story and mum will say she’ll only throw it don’t bother, but I will read it and she will sit quietly turning the page, she will answer questions about the story.

Then her and her brother will start playing, and the noise gradually increases. It reaches that point where I’m thinking Mum time to step in and she ignores it. Only when it gets to screaming does she intervene and shouts ‘use your in door voice’. How ironic.

I could go on with examples. But mums convinced there is something wrong and it’s like she can’t wait for a diagnosis. I was previously a primary school teacher, and I would say there’s is nothing wrong except mums behaviour. Yes I’ve tried saying things numerous times but am brushed off, so what can you do? This little girl is bright, but she just needs parents who will parent her.

I think it is hard now, with so much information about, that you can take several behaviours a child displays and it could mean they have a number of different SEND. But those behaviours can also be challenging behaviours a child displays because they haven’t had boundaries, routines, positive reinforcement, someone to show them how to play, what is appropriate and what isn’t, or someone to educate them.

But I hold my hands up to those parents who are supporting their children with special needs who also have challenging behaviour, it is the hardest job I could ever imagine having.

PhilomenaButterfly what I was trying to say was the op and her Dp need to put in the work but having taken the advice given on this forum and it hasn’t worked perfectly after one night the op is very negative with everything and is almost giving up after 24 hours because it hasn’t worked immediately.

Just remembered a friend, I have referred to her situation before on other threads. She has a Ds who would run around all day, upturning furniture, throwing things, also couldn’t play nicely with his little sister, along the lines of your Ds regarding the energy levels and not sleeping.
They spent a fortune on private assessments as the NHS were drawing a blank.

They sat in the final drs office and were told to change their diet as their Ds had an issue with processing sugar. Not just fruit juice or cans of cola and sweets but anything the body could turn into a lot of sugar like carbohydrates which had to be minimised

The doctor they saw said everyone in the house had to abide by the diet plan. He said it would be the worse 2 weeks of their lives but after 2 weeks all the issues would resolve themselves.

They stuck to the diet religiously by day 10 friend and her dh felt like they were heading for the divorce courts. They were not only screaming at the children but were screaming at each other.
They thought about giving up but decided to push through but even up to the evening of day 14 they weren’t expecting a change.
Day 15 they awoke to an almost silent house having had a full nights sleep.

They went downstairs only to find their Ds and dd playing together, laughing and giggling. The change was so huge they have all stuck with the diet to this day

They have become experts in searching out inventive recipes to copy or adapt.

Ds always was packed off to school with a packed lunch and snacks and told he couldn’t eat or drink anything that wasn’t in his lunch box.
But one day a friend offered him a Haribo. Friend was called to pick him up from school. They had corralled him into the hall where he was throwing plastic chairs around. This was just after 1 haribo.

I am a firm believer in you are what you eat and how some foods affect children especially.

OP, good news about your DP taking some time off to spend with your DS.

I know you feel like a failure, but you stuck with this thread and you are clearly trying your hardest.

You have a lot on your plate and I think you need some alone time to recharge. I hope your HV gets back to you, you definitely need some support and help. 3 kids under 5 at 23 is a lot to handle!