People that have been in Jail.

[firsttimedad79]

I was just reading another thread about someone who had been in jail and was surprised by the negativity.

It wasn't mentioned what he had been in for or anything, it just assumed he was a bad person.

I've been inside twice in my youth, but I wouldn't consider myself a bad person. I made mistakes when I was younger but it doesn't dictate who I am now.

AIBU in thinking people automatically assume your bad because you've done time?

See, I know a young girl who was sent to prison for burglary, first offence, and she was a vulnerable girl led into it by a lad who was the ringleader but had the sense to stash the stuff in her room, she’d not have done it were it not for him, he wasn’t even charged.

It’s not always difficult to be sent to prison.

I wouldn't associate with someone who has been in prison except in a professional capacity. Who needs the drama?

I imagine some of it comes down to whether you really believe rehabilitation is possible. I do. But prison isn't very good at helping that. There's a fair chance that a fundamentally decent person who got in with the wrong crowd in their youth and got sent to prison would emerge as a much less decent person as the result of prison.

Not for a first time shoplifting offence you wouldn't but for multiple times what other choice is there?

There is a free event on Jan 22 that is thought-provoking because I don't have any grasp of the arguments for prison abolition and what the options to our present system would be.

Panel on prison abolition in London next Tuesday (22/01) 6-8 at Birkbeck College (Room GOR 327). Speakers from IWOC_London and the Empty Cages Collective. Free, everyone welcome.

twitter.com/CAPExpansion/status/1085897831498444810

There's a fuller event in May that brings together researchers, various organisations and other bodies:

Over two days, researchers, practitioners and activists will come together to discuss the development of abolitionism across the UK over the past half century, debate current approaches and map out future possibilities for abolitionist research and practice in the UK.

www.crimeandjustice.org.uk/civicrm/event/info?id=192&reset=1

I wouldn't necessarily think you were a bad person. You could have been involved in drugs when you were young, committed theft to fund your habit, been caught in possession once too many times, and ended up doing time. You could have then sorted yourself out, kicked the habit, and now lead a decent and law abiding life.

In that circumstance I would admire you for getting your life back on track.

It really depends on the crime and circumstances.

Interesting reponses.

I work with women post prison. The good v bad argument is a feeble one.

Having a prison sentence handed down is because a crime has been committed. That's intent. The circunstances surrounding the crime are mitigating circumstances.

When people who commit crime develop a conscience and admit they had no right to do the things they did, only then can desistance begin.

The country's prisons are packed to the rafters with short-term sentenced men and women. There are too many people being locked up. Far too many. There are only approx 60 people who will remain in prison for a whole life term. That means they will die in prison. That means that out of 80k+ sentenced people, the majority will be released.

People will always make judgements on people that have been in prison. It's embedded in human nature.

A bit out of date, but this is interesting.

Jail is different to prison. You can go to jail before you are convicted of anything, so you can be completely innocent and still have been to jail. If you get sent to prison, you have been convicted of a crime and are presumed guilty.

Thats in America.

Here, the terms are used interchangeably. We only have prisons, not remand facilities.

Any examples?

Oh, loads. Birds gave a brilliant reply to you though. I'm not here for a debate, just responded to OP's question.
There will always be people who see things in black/white and are punitive-minded, will refuse to believe social deprivation and poverty play a role in any criminality and that social class will influence sentencing outcomes, availability to rehab/support ect so to argue otherwise is futile, frankly.

In the real world, loads of people working across the criminal justice system have done prison time especially those in substance abuse. In fact in many cases, it's their pasts which have guided them to that career or will at least come in very handy ironically, as the people they're helping will identify with them and see that life can improve. Most young men in prison will be in there for drugs related offences, a lot will have spent time in young offenders, the overwhelming majority are working class, most will have been labelled from a very young age.
Education and opportunity can change people, breaking cycles in childhood can change outcomes ect. There is no criminal gene.

People can be very wild as teenagers and grow out of it. I literally cannot recognise myself from being a youth, i was completely untaught and unsupervised but have brought myself up since. People can and do change.

But some people are addicted to chaos and they reject the chance to change. Fraud can be slipped into by ignoring things and getting used to things rather than an "active" sought out crime so it would make you feckless, stupid and not scrupulously honest rather than dangerous.

Having a chaotic person in your life is hopeless and drags you into their mess. If they haven't been able to or wanted to change substantially i would give them a wide berth.

Someone with a long ago conviction who has left all that chaos and dysfunction behind i would associate with but it would be a case by case basis.

I wouldn't consider someone a bad person just because they'd committed a crime when young. Sometimes the 'beak' makes an example out of a person - think Charlie Gilmour a few years ago, he was only nineteen and drunk but nobody died, yet he was given a sixteen month sentence. Because he came from a well off background, an example was made of him.

Ant McPartlin might well have gone to prison for drunk driving. He didn't but his fine was gi-normous and he lost his licence for 20 months, first offence.

My husband has employed people who've been in prison. Everyone deserves chances and people change.

(I went to 'naughty school' from 16-18 because I was deemed to be 'in need of care and protection', ie running away from home and mixing with unsuitable people. It was Hell!)

Oakmaiden

That is interesting. Most offences are similar in number between males and females except sexual offences. Now is that due to women not committing the crime, or men/women not reporting it?

I don't think its a simple as a person who has been to prison is a bad person v someone who has never been and is automatically branded a good person.
I've met some really awful people who have never been in any type of trouble and I've met some great people who have done a lot of time in prison.
Theres a lot of previously very violent criminals who have gone on to do a lot of good work in the community like Bobby Cummings etc who founded the Unlock Charity for ex offenders.
At the end of the day theres a lot of people who just haven't been caught and society lets the elite get off with all sorts of crimes as well. e.g Gary Barlow, if someone on the dole had done a big social security fiddle to the tune of millions they would go to jail, no doubt about it. But because this odious creature was rich he got off with it and didn't even get his OBE taken off him! Yes he had to pay the money back but he didn't get a criminal record or anything.

"Shoplifting when 14 or battering a granny for her pension when 14 "

Yes, but you wouldn't be in prison for the first one would you.

I'm interested how few people on this thread know people who've been to prison.

The people I know who've been locked up it's been generally for refusing to pay fines following environmental / other protests or for contempt of court in similar circs (Welsh language campaigner refusing to engage with the court in English for eg though that's going back some time).

Others it's people who had majorly fucked up childhoods / in care etc and ended up in youth prison but got their lives together and I'd say are worthy of admiration for having sorted themselves out in really difficult times.

And yy to the difference between women who've been in prison and men (which is not to say that a man who has been in prison is automatically still/always a bad person)

@Santaclarita, What do you think? Do you really think there might be thousands of women sexual offenders roaming the streets who haven't been reported?

"(Welsh language campaigner refusing to engage with the court in English for eg though that's going back some time). "

I know a lot of people who went to prison for Welsh language direct action in the 60s and 70s. I don't really consider them ex-cons though.
I think having a criminal record now is much worse for your job prospects than it was back then.

Fraud is often viewed as the lesser crime but can be utterly sociopathic. Systematically conning the vulnerable out of everything. They are unlikely to change as they have some kind of nose for weakness and easy ways to take advantage.

Someone who used to fight in pubs is probably easier to rehabilitate.

I think it’s absolutely possible for people to turn their lives around after prison and become good citizens. In fact, that should be the purpose of prison - rehabilitation.

That said, the man on the thread you mentioned was clearly an arsehole who could add nothing to the OP’s life, which is why people were so opposed to her contacting him.

I'm interested how few people on this thread know people who've been to prison

It isn't really something that is evident and visible, though, is it. People may choose not to discuss it.

I've only known of 2 people sent to prison. Both were fraud/financial theft. Pointless. Neither had any background of physical violence etc. A far better punishment would have been significant financial consequences, such as huge fines, or long term attachment of earnings orders to pay back maybe 2 or 3 times what they stole. As it was, neither paid anything back, both were out of prison within a year. What a pointless "punishment". We should only be looking up people who have harmed others physically or who are at risk of doing so - i.e. to keep the streets safer. For theft etc where there is no violence, then hit them in their pockets - if they have no earnings/savings/assets, then lets beef up community service and make them work for as long as it takes to pay it back at minimum wage rates.

MsTSwift Slightly baffled that op is “surprised by the negativity” about going to jail !

Me too but then if you have been to prison it is your normal isn’t it?

Do they send good people to jail?

then lets beef up community service and make them work for as long as it takes to pay it back at minimum wage rates

This could have worked if the probation service hadn’t been decimated. I won’t even tell you how many people with community service just haven’t done it, and there’s been no consequences.

There simply aren’t enough people to supervise all these cases. Prisons are full but the probation service (well private “businesses” supervise community service now, supposedly) is on it’s knees.

Your average person on the street doesn’t care about cuts to the criminal justice system. Why would they? But no one is getting rehabilitation any more and it’s only going to get worse. Therefore creating more victims.