People that have been in Jail.

[firsttimedad79]

I was just reading another thread about someone who had been in jail and was surprised by the negativity.

It wasn't mentioned what he had been in for or anything, it just assumed he was a bad person.

I've been inside twice in my youth, but I wouldn't consider myself a bad person. I made mistakes when I was younger but it doesn't dictate who I am now.

AIBU in thinking people automatically assume your bad because you've done time?

I know a guy (many years ago so things may have changed) who someone asked when he was young to hold 30 Es for a couple of days and then on a tip off the police came to search his house and found them (very well to do middle class Surrey house, probably the first time police had entered it, very obviously a set up). This was a first offense, he'd never been in trouble before, and he was maybe late teens/early twenties. He was put away for 3 years as a dealer.

He was one of my brothers' best friends so he was round our house all the time. He was and is a thoroughly decent person. He was not a dealer in any way (I knew him well) although he took recreational drugs on the weekend some times.

That one bad choice ruined his life, put it on a completely different trajectory. He couldn't get a job, and eventually set up his own business with help from his family instead. He has a family now and has put it behind him, and his business is ticking along nicely because he works hard at it.

So no, I don't judge people just because they've been in jail, but would probably want to know the details if I was offering them a job or letting them look after my kids. And I don't trust the criminal justice system to get it right every time.

I know a few people in my family who have been in prison - two male cousins. Neither were 'bad lads' so to speak, just fell in with the wrong crowd and made some dodgy decisions

One was in for shoplifting , and another time handling stolen goods (hiding for his friend, repeatedly). Stupid yes, but not violent in any way. I loved him, he was so nice and almost like a big brother to me, he died before 30 of alcoholicism

Another was heavily into drugs. Silly sod stole his stepdads car and drove it down a mountain (as in passed out at wheel, lost control and turned it down the side of a mountain,) and crashed. Very dangerous, could have killed someone. However, again just a silly young man with no real malice to him

Prison did them both no good. My first cousin came out, continued working on the roads, continued drinking, continued mixing with the same people and nothing changed. As mentioned earlier he died increadibly young.

My other cousin, we don't really mix with. When he left prison the first time he came to us and mam gave him a cooked dinner and some toiletries, there wasn't much love there though and I think she did that only because she felt sorry for him. I saw him again years later in the bus, he'd just left prison again, had been drinking heavily and was going to rehab. Not sure how he got on, that was a few years ago.

The difference in the two was their attitudes. First cousin, while his friends etc remained the same, never returned to prison again after 2nd time. He did try and clean up his act on numerous occasions. He was never violent, was never a tighter, and not a thief. He'd ask for loans off family but if told no he would accept it. He really tried. He also made time for family - gave lifts, picked me up from school, mowed the lawn etc.

The second cousin, hmm. He didn't see his son for reasons unknown, he was heavily into drugs and would steal whatever wasn't nailed down, he too would ask for loans but would get aggressive when told no. He dealt drugs and brought police to uncles door many times. He wasn't really sorry for his actions. Never bothered with the family unless he wanted something, usually money or food.

Both cousins hates each other. Cousin 1 was my uncles son by his first wife, cousin 2 was his stepson by his 2nd wife

@WhoNose88

Yes sentencing has changed entirely now because of prison overcrowding. Nowadays he wouldn’t even go to prison for that. Even as recent as 10 years ago any kind of dealing was an automatic prison sentence. Now it would have to be much higher quantities to warrant prison. That’s something else to consider when talking about someone who served a prison sentence 20 years ago. Had they committed their crime today would they even go to prison?

My dh had a jail sentence 18 years ago ,he isn't a bad person ,at the time he was addicted to drugs he made over bad choices, he thinks if he haven't gone jail he would be dead now due I drugs people can and do change their lives .

An old school friend of mine went to prison for stealing from his employer. It’s was many years ago and he was a gambling addict and a fool. He is now a married father of 2, has a mortgage, a job and is a volunteer working with refugee families. He made a stupid mistake years ago but I don’t judge him by that. I judge the person he has become and the lessons he has learnt from it.

Non-payment of television licence?

I think they were pulling your leg! A quick search will show you how few people go to prision on very short sentences, for not paying fines for non payment of a television licence.

Prison means you got caught. Doesn’t mean you changed or were “rehabilitated”. You may have changed. Some may have changed without going to prison. But time served does not equal innocence.

I know several people who have been to prison and many more who have criminal records. For the most part, I didn't know about either until they told me, so I'd already formed an opinion of them.

One of my closest friends served a term in Barlinnie. The offence was related to an addiction he has and he entirely deserved the sentence. He is now a highly respected member of his community and works with very fragile, vulnerable people. He is the only person I have ever left my young children with and I truly believe that he is fully rehabilitated. I don't judge him, but I know that he would never commit this offence again. I might if I thought that he would do it again.

On the other hand, I know someone else who served the same sentence for the same offence and has continued to commit similar and other offences (including one relating to a firearm). I don't believe he will ever be rehabilitated and I avoid him when I can. I do feel some sympathy for him, because he had the kind of upbringing which anyone would struggle to recover from (thrown out of house and forced to live rough at 14, previously severely beaten/abused, truly horrific stuff). But feeling sympathy doesn't mean that I want to get caught up in his chaos.

As for "do they send good people to jail?" I'm fairly sure that happens all the time, simply because no system is perfect and innocent people do get convicted. I also think that a lot of crime is committed by desperate people, and while the choices they make are wrong, that doesn't make them bad people.

It would really depend on the circumstances, what they'd gone to jail for, and whether they had genuinely turned their life around. I wouldn't automatically write them off, as ex prisoners can and do turn their lives around, as can be seen on this thread, but I'm realistic and know that a lot don't.

I would be wary, especially if one of my DDs befriended or dated an ex con, as I wouldn't want them to be led astray.

On the thread in question, the man wasn't only being vilified for being in prison, but for being an arsehole to the OP.

First offence taking a phone... no tv licence... people are having a laugh if they think people will believe they went to prison for that.

I know something, if the offence was such that you are embarrassed to tell the truth about it, it doesn’t make you changed, it makes you a liar.

See, I know a young girl who was sent to prison for burglary, first offence, and she was a vulnerable girl led into it by a lad who was the ringleader but had the sense to stash the stuff in her room, she’d not have done it were it not for him, he wasn’t even charged

Burglars dont go to prison for a forst offence in my experience. I worked on a Burglary Investigation Unit for several years and sent dozens and dozens of burglars to court and was incredibly frustrated by the weak sentencing (in my opinion) handed down. I'd heavily question whether it was truly a first offence, or if there is a lot more to the story you're not privy to.

Circumstances make a difference I suppose. I think people who commit crimes probably have a higher than average chance of being quite selfish.

A friend served several years for stealing huge sums of money from his employer because of a gambling addiction. I like him and trust him on the whole. There are aspects of his personality I find weird or odd though. He works as a delivery driver and never locks his van, I get why he wouldn't in that job, but he had his van stolen (couldn't claim as the van was unlocked), he then bought another van and a dog and still kept it unlocked and it was stolen again, and again he couldn't claim given the circumstances. And even now he still doesn't lock it. It's not even deliveries. He went to town and left it unlocked.

He works very hard enough, 6/7 hours a week from very early to very late and has done for years. I fully respect him how he is willing to do anything for his family. He could have had a good career, he was excellent at school, albeit a bit lazy, but now he can't really progress in a career because of his conviction. But he's extremely hard working and a really lovely person, but I wouldn't like to cross him.

Jail is for serious or repeated crimes.
I would not employ someone in any job who had been in jail.

I wouldn't judge. People can change. People are not the same as when they went in.
I prefer to judge the person they are now.

My brother went to jail for gbh.

He was in a pub when he 20 a couple of guys where harrashing him and taunting him for being gay, my brother was ignoring him, had his back to them whilst sat at thw bar one guy punched him in the back, my brother turned round and punched him in the face, forgetting he had his pint in his hand.

He did 2 years, he's not a bad guy, an alcoholic who's had a rough life, he doesn't get into fights is not aggressive at all. Far as I'm concerned he was defending him self, and in a semi drunk state made a mistake and caused more damage to a guy who had a problems with gay people.

Mobyduck.

What if every one thought that? Hardly going to help them ifnthey can't manage to get a job to lead a lawful life. Why wouldn't they turn to crime to survive if no one would give them a job.

Jail is for serious or repeated crimes.
I would not employ someone in any job who had been in jail.
Thankfully not everyone is like you or then what would The incentive be to even bother to change

Ant McPartlin might well have gone to prison for drunk driving.

First offence, no other aggravating features.....not a chance. No one goes to prison in those circumstances. You are looking at prison for a third drink driving offence.

I admit it's the "twice" which would bother me; I wouldn't be too comfortable with once TBH, but at twice I'd definitely step away unless they were absolutely honest about what they'd done and didn't self-edit

While it's true crime is usually a choice, so is who we associate with. As an employer I had applicants who tried very hard to minimise convictions, but what they forgot in offering sob stories is that there's always someone else to pick from who hasn't got a record

I know a few people who have been arrested, some of whom have been jailed. Now questioning my social circle!

Drink driving - convicted, lost his license, no jail time. He thinks he was incredibly lucky, is remorseful and grateful he didn’t kill anyone. No longer drinks. Very ‘white middle class’ if you want to include background circumstances.

Drug dealing - he has always maintained his innocence, circumstantial evidence, convicted and sentenced to (can’t remember how many years, less than 10). Left prison, became a successful business man. He cheated on his wife before they were married but presents as a ‘good’ character and is well respected in the community. He is black and from a broken home.

Drug related - he was the money man for a drug smuggler. He says he didn’t know what he was doing - yeah, right. He is an obnoxious man and I don’t know how his wife puts up with him. Nothing is ever his fault. Speaks with a posh accent and I think he went to Oxford but has a middle class background.

Not sure of the charge but related to apartheid protests in a South Africa - he was guilty, did his time, possibly a little proud of it. Successful businessman and quite a charmer. White South African so either a middle class background or very privileged depending on your perspective.

The one I judge most harshly is the white collar drug related crime. It could be because I think he is an arsehole. It could also be because it was an intelligent crime requiring consistent thought and planning.

Thankfully not everyone is like you or then what would The incentive be to even bother to change

So it's up to non-criminals to give incentives for criminals to stop being criminals? Here's an incentive: don't be a dick.

I also wouldn't employ someone who'd been in prison. Not sorry.

Also I think people watch too many films and believe anyone incarcerated must have been wrongly accused, doing it for their child, provoked etc. Always a bleeding heart story about "well he threatened me so I accidentally smashed his skull open". When almost all people in jail will be there because they deserve to be and they created a victim somewhere.

I would not any employ anyone who had been in prison.

Well as long as you don't say that's the reason why you didn't give them the job. If people have spent their convictions its actually classed as discrimination to hold it against them. Unless of course theyre banned from a certain line of work.
Thats not to say morally I don't get where you're coming from. However morals don't come into it. Unfortunatly dirty rapists ect ect have rights.

Ex convicts are not a protected group - it's not discrimination to use that to not employ them. The same way that it's not discrimination to not employ someone because they stole from their last workplace

I have two relatives who have been to prison.

One has been several times for short periods, always in connection with political protests. He hs put his life on the line for others more times than I can count. He is the most principled, intelligent, altruistic and decent human being I know. I love him dearly.

The other had a very abusive childhood and ended up on the streets, severely mentally ill and was sent to prison for harassing staff in the police station near where she slept rough. No violence but she was pestering them daily and causing a massive nuisance. She needs help and treatment, not prison, but that's not the world we live in. I can't deal with her personally, but I feel very sorry for her. She's not a "bad person", she's ill and her life is ruined.