Accused of being racist

[Montagu90]

Hi all

I have NC and don't want a potential flaming tarnishing my TTC posts!

Had an upsetting run in today that has made me have a long hard look at some assumptions I made and question whether I was in fact, being racist.

I don't consider myself in anyway racist and am not one of those 'I'm not racist but...' people. However, please tell me if in the below scenario IWBU

DH and I are avid foodies and like to try foods from various parts of the world. We really enjoy Asian, Thai, Vietnamese food but although love Indian food, we can never seem to master it at home. Over Christmas I attempted my fourth Biryani only to fall once again at the right balance and texture of rice.

So I decided this weekend to try once more. I went to a really good local greengrocers who happen to be run by an Indian couple and therefore have a good varied range of Indian spices and things I can usually never find (ghee for example). I picked up the ingredients for my recipe but noticed a few other customers had bought these packs to make up various Indian curries which have all the bits you need in them. So I picked up one of these too.

When I got to the till I asked the man whether they were any good. He replied they seem to be popular but he hasn't tried them himself. I then laughed and said I've never quite managed the perfect Biryani and I don't suppose he has any tips for the perfect recipe? He got visibly cross and said 'why, just because I'm Indian I must know how to cook a good curry?' I stuttered and apologised if I'd caused any offence, I was just genuinely asking if he could offer me any assistance... he then said he didn't go around asking every white person how to make gravy and I should consider what I say before making such racist comments.

I got out of there quite quickly but just felt awful. I've since wondered why I asked him... the fact that he ran a shop which had a specialist section on Indian food was certainly part of it. However, if the shop had been run by a white man, I don't think I would have asked.

So I did make an assumption based on his perceived culture. But I see this as no different to asking my Welsh friend for their best Rarebit recipe (which she happily gave me). I definitely wouldn't have stopped a random man in the street so where he was working definitely had something to do with it.

I am now sitting at home feeling awful that someone thinks of me this way when all I wanted was to make a nice Saturday night meal.

So WIBU?

if everything is racist, nothing is

deficient
Sounds like you are making assumptions and are coming across to me as nasty. Everybody is allowed to post as much as they like and it's not determined by what you think a posters race is. I'll post when I want to and won't be bullied by you or anyone.

easy
I would say intent is the difference between racism and inappropriateness with comments / questions.

I can’t stop anyone from posting, obviously. Funny you’re back after saying you were going huh. Just can’t resist telling naughty old me what a mean nasty women I am for calling out behaviour that POC put up with all the flipping time. No white person likes being told they are whitesplaining, particularly if they think of themselves as an ally. I’m not a bully for telling you any of this, but I’m not surprised at all at the claim. So so used to it.

Wow, didn't realise this thread was still going! Great to get so many differing views and experiences from all sides on this.

I just want to clarify a few things...not with the aim of vindication in any way from my original post...but I see a LOT of assumptions have been made.

-The gentleman I spoke to was the owner and he was Indian. He wasn't a 'random brown till operator', nor did I just identify his assumed race by his skin colour. I had previously (albeit briefly) spoken to his wife (I know it was his wife as he was stacking shelves at the time and she gestured to him). She was a lovely woman and spoke warmly about their move to the here 10 years ago and dream of bringing a bit of Indian spice to the UK (shop had been open a few years)

-It was not a greengrocers with two or three Indian food products. They have a wide range of the usual fodder but nearly half their shop space is dedicated to all sorts of wonderful eastern food stuffs (more Indian than further east but I wouldn't want to be accused of making that assumption)

-I didn't demand that he recount a curry recipe as I assume every Indian person carries around complicated recipes in their heads. I asked if he had any top tips. Many wonderful users have posted their tips (and one amazing recipe I look forward to trying) such as buying fried onions, soaking rice...that was what I wondered if he might have.

-I did laugh in our conversation. I'm not mad! Up until the point where I asked for Biryani tips, it was a pretty jovial conversation!

-My comment about reflecting that I wouldn't have asked him if he was white was poorly worded but what I meant was, I was looking for authenticity and wouldn't have asked him if he had been British, Spanish, Chinese etc. Some on here have suggested hiding racism around 'authenticity and heritage' which is something to consider and certainly I now would change this and not assume that the expertise on cooking a Country's cuisine was solely down to people from that Country.

-My last clarification is how surprised I am just how many people have assumed my race, whilst chastising me for doing the same (although I realise his comment to me would have caused this). I am mixed race but look white with dark hair! I have never known my father (who was also mixed race) and therefore consider myself white in my head purely because I was brought up by my white mother and her family (but my own confused identity is a whole different thread!!). I didn't actually click that his comment to me was as assumptive as mine to him until I was talking to my DM about it. Interesting she said she used to get asked all the time if I was hers when I was a baby (I was darker as a child) as people assumed a mixed race baby couldn't belong to a white mother...different times perhaps. However, his comment and assumption made was feeding off the back of mine to him so less relevant in the 'AIBU' argument and I didn't think relevant to my OP - I bring it as so many people have commented to this.

I guess my summary is this. My intent was good natured but intent is only through the eyes of the person on the receiving end. I would absolutely ask again for cooking tips but would first check that said person had an interest or knowledge of that cuisine. It has made me realise that we all make snap judgements: I did to him, he did to me, many on this post have done so also. We go with the information we have in front of us but our own background also really affects that judgement. I haven't experienced much racism so it's not even on my radar when I make these assumptions/judgements. I imagine from someone's perspective who has had this all their life, the way they receive these assumptions is heavily influenced by this.

I WU to assume he knew the cuisine. We can all have a view on where this sits on the spectrum and how bad or not this was! I stand by that his reaction was unnecessary. I will probably be accused of censoring him but that's my view. Given the context it probably wanted a bit of a reality check for me, but not the angry outburst I got.

Thanks for all the comments, both positive and negative: even the one suggesting the police be called on me...if nothing else, that one gave me a laugh!!

CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT people.

It is NOT the same as asking a white person if they can make a roast or whatever. Because white people don't experience daily micro incidences of racial stereotyping, unconscious bias or worse, outright racism.

But brown people DO! So it is entirely understandable if sometimes a seemingly innocuous comment may just be the straw that broke the camel's back. You don't know what he has had to tolerate that day / that week / in his work generally from people. The OP didn't ask about shop products, she asked him for curry cooking tips. It is the equivalent of a woman working in Robert Dyas being asked by a man if they have any tips for keeping a clean and tidy home.

Yes he responded rudely and it was not appropriate but until you have walked a mile in someone's shoes you can't judge.

OP I think you just got a grumpy bugger. My mum is a POC (God I hate that term) and to other mixed race people who can spot each other a mile off, I guess so am I. I can state with some certainty that my mum would be thrilled to be asked for a recipe and would not think it racist. It saddens me so that we have reached a point where we cannot be curious about other cultures without fear of offense. My mum’s generation would have loved regular, interested interaction instead of being called a Paki on regular basis. Some perspective needed I think, but that’s just my IMO. I honestly wouldn’t lose any sleep over it.

She asked because he was indian. Not because he was non-white.

If anything the assumption was that she wouldn’t ask a white person, because they are probably not indian.

As I see that OP has now pointed out 😊
I’m still going with cultural appropriation personally

FFS YWNU

The guy is textbook DARVO

Is he the manager? I would complain.

All he needed to do is to say sorry, I'm afraid I don't have any tips etc.

I am seriously offended at why everyone has to be so f**king offended at EVERYTHING all the bloody time.

What are we meant to do? Walk on egg shells around everyone all the time?

DARVO DARVO DARVO

I wouldn't shop there again, if I were you.

And maybe let him know why, in the spirit of customer feedback.

I am happy to tell you how to make BRILLIANT biryani. Pm me :)

What I have taken from this thread is that, funnily enough, not all POC ( which incorporates many many ethnicities and backgrounds inc. class), and not all white people (inc. Jewish or Mediterranean etc. who are 'classified' as white) have the same point of view as others of the same 'class'.
One person's friendly conversational chit chat is another person's micro aggression. Ah well that's what makes us so fascinating I suppose.

You are def not being unreasonable... he sells the stuff, surely he would be expected to answer questions on the products he’s selling, basic customer service?

He was being ridiculous. I would not shop there again. My DF was a greengrocer and regularly gave advice on ways to cook with the fruit and veg he sold. People often asked for advice. He considered it part of the service. Given that he sold Indian items it was perfectly reasonable to ask.

What I’ve taken from this thread is that when a person of colour says a remark is racist, their opinion will be minimised and dismissive by white people.

‘What I’ve taken from this thread is that when a person of colour says a remark is racist, their opinion will be minimised and dismissive by white people.’

I’m a POC and I’m saying it’s not racist.

Maybe look at the stereotypical assumptions you are making.

What is a DARVO?

I’m mixed race, many commenting are POC, some Indian. POC aren’t untouchable and other POC are allowed to disagree.

As part Asian I would findit offensive and so would my family, just because you assumed.

Fowles94 but why is it offensive to be assumed indian?
I'm mixed race and I've been assumed indian, Thai and Italian when I travelled a lot. At no time did I find this offensive.
Sometimes is important to reflect on where these feelings come from. It's not about the other person but your own thoughts

Just to clarify again, ref my pp a few up. I didn't just assume he was Indian, I had previously spoken to his wife and knew they had moved here from India 10 years ago

I can't believe ppl who r Asian r finding this innocent question racist.
I feel honoured when someone wants to know something and they ask me.
Religion caste colour creed is all made by man
Firstly we r human.
Look beyond colour please
Try to be more knowledgeable about who u r sharing yr world with

No you assumed he could cook Indian because he was Indian, it a stereotyping.

And when I go to a shop and talk to the owners, I would expect them to be willing to talk about the things they sell. That too is stereotyping. Often I am wrong and they have no interest.

Feels like we can only ask Google n then be given the wrong answers
This world need to change