Accused of being racist

[Montagu90]

Hi all

I have NC and don't want a potential flaming tarnishing my TTC posts!

Had an upsetting run in today that has made me have a long hard look at some assumptions I made and question whether I was in fact, being racist.

I don't consider myself in anyway racist and am not one of those 'I'm not racist but...' people. However, please tell me if in the below scenario IWBU

DH and I are avid foodies and like to try foods from various parts of the world. We really enjoy Asian, Thai, Vietnamese food but although love Indian food, we can never seem to master it at home. Over Christmas I attempted my fourth Biryani only to fall once again at the right balance and texture of rice.

So I decided this weekend to try once more. I went to a really good local greengrocers who happen to be run by an Indian couple and therefore have a good varied range of Indian spices and things I can usually never find (ghee for example). I picked up the ingredients for my recipe but noticed a few other customers had bought these packs to make up various Indian curries which have all the bits you need in them. So I picked up one of these too.

When I got to the till I asked the man whether they were any good. He replied they seem to be popular but he hasn't tried them himself. I then laughed and said I've never quite managed the perfect Biryani and I don't suppose he has any tips for the perfect recipe? He got visibly cross and said 'why, just because I'm Indian I must know how to cook a good curry?' I stuttered and apologised if I'd caused any offence, I was just genuinely asking if he could offer me any assistance... he then said he didn't go around asking every white person how to make gravy and I should consider what I say before making such racist comments.

I got out of there quite quickly but just felt awful. I've since wondered why I asked him... the fact that he ran a shop which had a specialist section on Indian food was certainly part of it. However, if the shop had been run by a white man, I don't think I would have asked.

So I did make an assumption based on his perceived culture. But I see this as no different to asking my Welsh friend for their best Rarebit recipe (which she happily gave me). I definitely wouldn't have stopped a random man in the street so where he was working definitely had something to do with it.

I am now sitting at home feeling awful that someone thinks of me this way when all I wanted was to make a nice Saturday night meal.

So WIBU?

She didnt say that, she said it was food shop as main reason plus he is Indian

She didn’t say he was brown so she assumed

It's making a point that we all make assumptions and he himself made one. Racism isn't a one way street.

It’s true though

He could have been English. She knew he wasn’t. Nothing to do with skin colour.

Otherwise maybe she would have asked if he had tips on Yorkshire pudding batter, brown skin and all.

And if that was the question I’m guessing posters would still have found it racist.

YWBU - there's no obvious link between owning a shop that sells Indian ingredients and knowing a recipe for a specific Indian dish that you happen to like. He gave you a clue he didn't know about cooking when you asked about the seasoning packets. You should have stopped at that point.

I also wouldn't consider a shop that sells ghee and curry spices to be so unusual or an indication that its owners are experts in Indian cooking. But I live in a large city.

Sounds like he was over sensitive. It’s pretty normal to ask for tips about food from staff in a supermarket e.g. asking for tips on how to cook fish from the fish counter. Possibly you did make assumptions about him based on his ethnic origins but it’s not as if you made bad assumptions about him. We all deal in stereotypes sometimes.

I’m Irish and people of colour have asked me for Irish coffee recipes or whatever. It’s annoying but it’s not the end of the world. If he deals with the public every day, he needs to get a thicker skin!

Tomfrom, do you even know what racism means? Stop showing your ignorance. Whilst the OP may not have been motivated by racism, her behaviour was not okay.

Apart from you not knowing or understanding the meaning of racism, you fail to appreciate that whilst people with brown skin put up with these slights day in and day out because of their race, suffering huge inequalities in terms of outcomes in this society, you don't face the same challenge and disadvantages BECAUSE of your skin colour.

you don't face the same challenge and disadvantages BECAUSE of your skin colour.

And you have assumed I am white - why?

And don't try to throw in the years of oppression and disadvantage over a woman asking a guy about a damn recipe, it's taking the piss.

Oh and you can get my damn name right too while you're at it.

@Weightsandmeasures - the outcomes for people of Indian origin is pretty good in this country actually.

But equally his response seems to based on her skin colour too. How did he know she wasn't Indian?

So you're accepting that she was at fault in the first instance. That's cool, that's all I've been talking about.

I don't feel comfortable discussing the proportionality of his response: I've never been racially abused, so don't know what the correct thing to say back is.

I tried a new Indian restaurant at the weekend and was curious that there was beef on the menu. My partner mentioned to the waiter that we've never seen that before and he laughed and said "Ah, we're Christian Indians!" Should we have stopped and ran through all the possible explanations for it, lest we assume the restaurant was ran by Hindus or Muslims?

Give your rice a good sail and rinse before using. 3/4 cook your rice with spices and ghee / oil in lots of boiling water before adding on top of your meat.
Once the lid goes on the rice and meat, don't touch it until done, you don't want to let the steam out.
Top secret tip - buy the ready fried onions in a jar from the Asian shop, don't try and fry the crispy onions yourself at home!
If you really want to do the onions from scratch, cut wafer thin, then crush and squeeze with your hands to get all the moisture out before frying
Hope that helps!

So you're accepting that she was at fault in the first instance. That's cool, that's all I've been talking about.

Nope, I'm not saying she was at fault - that's a matter of opinion. I am saying that folks make assumptions all day long, and her case, she assumed that because he was Indian, he might know something about an Indian dish - not an unreasonable assumption (in my eyes). At the same time, he assumed that because of her skin colour, she wasn't Indian - another reasonable assumption, but one is being accused of racism and the other isn't.

I tried a new Indian restaurant at the weekend and was curious that there was beef on the menu. My partner mentioned to the waiter that we've never seen that before and he laughed and said "Ah, we're Christian Indians!" Should we have stopped and ran through all the possible explanations for it, lest we assume the restaurant was ran by Hindus or Muslims?

Muslims eat beef.

muslims eat beef

I think the PP means Hindu’s maybe.

I know Muslims eat beef and Hindu’s don’t but my local takeaway is ran by Muslims and doesn’t serve beef.

I read it all, thank you, to the pp who queried otherwise. And my thoughts remain the same, you were not accused. He made an observation that you assumed he knew about cooking because of the way he looked. And you did. That is racist.

No because op had previously chatted t his wife and knew where he was from.

The difference between asking your welsh friend is that she won’t have experienced racism/oppression because of the colour of her skin. He most likely will have.

Welsh people do experience racism though, even though they're white. I speak from experience.

I’ve stood on the street as people spat at my mother because of the colour of her skin. I was sent to the principals office for not being willing to check one ethnic box as a mixed race person. I know what racism actually is and this isn’t it. I don’t accept this is ‘subtle’ or everyday racism either. This type of conversation is how people get to learn about each other and each other’s culture. My Indian neighbour helped me with spices for meals and I helped her learn about vegan and Polynesian cooking. There is something seriously wrong in the world where every innocent word is taken to have unintended meaning. I ask the people in my local store about their ingredients and cooking in general, all the time. I’m a foodie. They’ve learnt from me and I’ve learnt from them.

The man was rude.

There are far too many people who don’t know what racism is on this thread. Prejudice and supremacy have nothing to do with assuming someone might know how to make food traditional to their country.

I look Indian. I used to work in an Indian restaurant. I’m not Indian and have no idea anything to do with the culture languages etc.

The amount of people who used to ask me questions like, how do you like this curry, do you enjoy traditional Indian music, what curry is the hottest oh god the list went on.

It’s inappropriate and normally comes from white English people who believe they’ve every right to ask a ‘native’ a sensible question about their heritage. I hope you don’t fall into that category.

@Oxytocindeficient how did the OP know the person was from the country mentioned? Just by looking at them? This is the racist part. Assuming someone comes from a certain part of the world simply because they look in their mind as if they do.

If you can say, in all certainty, that you’d have asked a white man behind the counter the same question, then you’re fine.

@candleconcerto

She said in the initial post that she wouldn’t

The OP knows because she has spoken to his wife. RTFT.

He is Indian and has only lived in the U.K. for the last 10 years.
An Indian person, born in India, lived in India, works in a shop that sells Indian food.